It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:36 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 72 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
Post subject: Build Your Own Amp - 2
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:51 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:50 pm
Posts: 7998
Location: ʎɹʇunoɔ ǝsoɹ pןıʍ
Rather than derail Bill's thread I thought I'd start my own.

I've pretty much decided I'm going to try my hand at building an amp and it's almost certain it will be a 5E3. I am only in the scouting stages right now and I am in no hurry to start building before I learn as much as I can about what is best in terms of tone and quality and reliability/longevity. There are certainly lots of options available out there. I personally have over a dozen links in my bookmarks for companies that sell Tweed Deluxe kits and I'm sure there are many more I haven't discovered yet.

I'd like to get some feedback from our local pros on the parts that go into the guts first. I'll prolly ask about other things as well, like bare tweed vs laquered, etc. but right now I'm trying to suss out my options for the electronics aspect. I sometimes read the stuff you guys say but because I'm not that well versed it doesn't always sound like English to me in my layman status. I guess what I'm really after is some info regarding things like turret boards, capacitors, diodes, resistors, transformers and the like. For example I've frequently noticed Sprague mentioned as the preferred caps. I believe I read somewhere that Leo used Astron caps. Is the difference longevity or tone or something else? Is there a reason Astron are not the cap of choice? They do seem to be available because there's a guy in Saskatchewan who builds these amps and uses them.

If you fellows could give me a little education about these kinds of parts and why some are preferred over others, pros & cons, that sort of thing, I would be very grateful. Also maybe some key words or buzzwords to help me identify these parts as I am searching the web would also be helpful.

_________________
Image
Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Build Your Own Amp - 2
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:38 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
Astron caps haven't been made in thirty or forty years. Thus, quality replacements are a must. I think the new line of Zoso caps (made to resemble the old Blue Molded types) are among the best for tone.

As for the quality of parts furnished in the various DIY kits, I think Mission Amps provides the best selection. But most companies do offer upgrades to their basic models (usually for an upcharge).

Trust me when I tell you, your ears will not be able to discern the difference between a quality printed-circuit board, a turret board, and an eyelet board. The operative issue is quality.

If you have little or no experience assembling an electronic device, be sure the company you buy from provides adequate schematics and illustrated documentation. A toll-free help line may also prove useful to novices.

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Build Your Own Amp - 2
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:20 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
+1 with what Arjay said.

I am a big fan (bet you couldn't tell :lol: ) of the Weber kits. The only problem is they do not come with instructions, just a schematic and wiring diagram. That wasn't a problem for me (BSEE, 1976), but if you have never done anything like this, a kit with instructions would be best.

As far as parts go, I wouldn't worry too much about that. The only parts I have had issues with in the Weber kits were the speakers connectors in the 5F6A kit, and the input jacks in the Java kit. The ones in the 5F6A were cheap and the ones in the Java were British style (I just don't like them). I replaced them with better quality Switchcraft jacks. Many kits come with either metal film or carbon film resistors. No need to worry about them. Weber has their caps made for them (probably in China) but I have no complaints. I do replace cheap ceramic caps with silver mica ones.

if you have the option, buy the kit without tubes. Some come with decent tubes (GTs or JJs) but many use no name Chinese tubes. If the kit offers the option of a tube upgrade, don't bother. You can usually buy them cheaper on your own then for what the upgrade would cost.

Also, you might want to read some books on tube amp design first. I posted a list of my current library here:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=86717

The Dave Hunter book is a great first read:

http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Amplifier- ... ap_title_0

Finally, ask a lot of questions of the dealer and come back here for help any time you need it. Building your own amp can be a challenge and frustrating at times (You should have been around when I was troubleshooting the Java/Trainwreck clone. I would have made even Arjay blush. :lol: :lol: :lol: ) but in the end, it is a lot of fun.

_________________
Bill

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Build Your Own Amp - 2
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:02 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
bluesky636 wrote:
(You should have been around when I was troubleshooting the Java/Trainwreck clone. I would have made even Arjay blush. :lol: :lol: :lol: ) but in the end, it is a lot of fun.


:mrgreen:

Bluesky, shimmilou, and BMW2002ti are perhaps this forum's most accomplished tech's -- both practical and theoretical. Avail yourself of their wisdom to the maximum extent possible and your amp build should be as trouble-free as can be.

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Build Your Own Amp - 2
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:53 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:26 am
Posts: 616
As others have said" build your own" its the gotta be done if your curious and when you have built it and it works and sounds good youll be so pleased you did.

Two or three years ago i decided to build the Tube depot 5E3 clone, it was pretty easy for a couple of reasons, all the instructions are there and its a straight forward design too.

It helped that ive been reading electrical diagrams for over 30 years but even so apart from the power transformer options being a bit vague (mains supply being a tad high)
as were on a bit more than 110v here in the UK and once a dropper TFMR was added to bring the B+ volts down a bit everything was AOK. Its now my go to amp.

I quickly swapped out the supplied Jenson speaker to a Weber and with some really good tubes she sings!

Good luck .


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Build Your Own Amp - 2
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:04 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:50 pm
Posts: 7998
Location: ʎɹʇunoɔ ǝsoɹ pןıʍ
Thank you, gentlemen!

Retroverbial wrote:
I think the new line of Zoso caps (made to resemble the old Blue Molded types) are among the best for tone.
This is the kind of feedback I'm looking for.
Retroverbial wrote:
Trust me when I tell you, your ears will not be able to discern the difference between a quality printed-circuit board, a turret board, and an eyelet board. The operative issue is quality.
Precisely why I wish to know what exactly to look for. How do I know if a kit will have quality parts when I'm searching the web? What are the buzzwords, catch phrases and/or brandnames associated with the various parts?
Retroverbial wrote:
If you have little or no experience assembling an electronic device, be sure the company you buy from provides adequate schematics and illustrated documentation. A toll-free help line may also prove useful to novices.
Right. I know this and I suspect this may present a conundrum for me. I'm beginning to suspect that those companies which advertise the quality of their kits are not the same companies which advertise the easy step-by-step instructions.


bluesky636 wrote:
... I replaced them with better quality Switchcraft jacks.
... I do replace cheap ceramic caps with silver mica ones.
Thank you. I already knew about Switchcraft for jacks but I have no idea what a silver mica cap is or how to recognize one if I see it. This is the kind of input I am looking for. I'll take any more of this you can think of, pretty please with sugar on top.



My main goal for asking these questions is to ensure I get the best quality parts and kit. That's actually my only interest right now. Instructions are secondary. I'm a fairly quick study and I'm sure there must be Instructional PDFs available from some of the other kit makers which I assume will help greatly as I am sure most of these kits go together roughly the same way. Is that a faulty assumption? I mean the end product is the same. I realize that turret boards require a different method than eyelet boards but the other parts must all be the same except for their level of quality.

_________________
Image
Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Build Your Own Amp - 2
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:15 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
Each kit (regardless of manufacturer) will have its own assembly nuances. Studying numerous build reports from multiple independent sources will doubtless reveal a plethora of useful data and I think we'd all encourage that.

Parts I recommend:

F&T electrolytic caps
Zoso axial (tone) caps
Allen & Bradley carbon-comp resistors (certain applications only)
CTS control pots
Switchcraft jacks
Heyboer and Mercury Magnetics transformers
60/40 tin-lead solder

Others endorse different components of similar quality.

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Build Your Own Amp - 2
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:08 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:19 pm
Posts: 8827
I also did the Tube Depot 5e3. Nice kit with good parts. The filter caps could be better, but I don't think I'd hear the subtle nuances of the different brands. It's a nice kit that can be upgraded with better caps. I replaced the 5watt cement resistor with a high performance 8W axial tubular ceramic cathode resistor, made by Ohmite called the "brown devil". The cabinet is really nice Pine with a void free Birch baffle. The Tweed is flawless. I didn't lacquer it. I'm just going to let it age naturally.

The chassis's really nice and the supplied transformers are incredible. It came with Classic Tone Transformers from a company called Magnetic Components. They've been around since 1943 and are located in the USA as well as manufactured here. The transformers are paper layer wound like the old days and sound great. I too changed the stock 50 watt Jenson Mod 12" speaker to a Weber 12A125A 30 watt, light dope. I wanted more of a vintage tone and IMO the Weber delivers in spades. The amp sounds great and I've been gigging with it for the past couple months. The kit comes with complete instructions and a Mil Spec board. Thick, double sided, plated through holes and nice wide traces. Rob Hull designed the kit and will answer any questions you have quickly.

The first tube amp I made was a 5 watt el84 driven amp from Mod Kits DIY. I have no idea what amp it's modeled after. It really has a voice of its own. I just bought an empty cabinet for that Jensen Mod speaker and use it for that amp. Sounds great.
http://www.modkitsdiy.com/kit/mod_102_guitar_amp_kit
This kit is also really nice for an old school true point to point build. No boards, just some terminal strips to mount components to. Sounds great has good components and Hammond transformers. I use the amp for some lower volume rehearsals and it works great and it's quiet.

Another nice kit is from BYOC called the Royal Tweed.
It combines a 5e3 and 5f1 circuit that's all switchable.
http://buildyourownclone.com/amps-cabs/ ... b-674.html
You can do either a head or combo.

I personally like the instructions and all three of these kits post the instructions on line so you can see if you think you're getting in over your head.
Allen Amps has first rate kits, but are pretty pricy.

_________________
Life...... It's sexually transmitted and always fatal


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Build Your Own Amp - 2
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:41 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:50 pm
Posts: 7998
Location: ʎɹʇunoɔ ǝsoɹ pןıʍ
Thanks gents!

I have some research to do.

_________________
Image
Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Build Your Own Amp - 2
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:14 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
I think you are getting too hung up on "parts quality". Except in a few obvious instances, any kit you choose will provide perfectly suitable parts. Pick a kit. Buy a kit. Build a kit. If you are unhappy with something, a part fails, or is obviously junk, then replace it with something better. If you keep searching for the kit with the "best" parts, you will never build one.

Read the book I referenced by Dave Hunter. It will answer a lot of your basic questions.

_________________
Bill

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Build Your Own Amp - 2
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:17 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:50 pm
Posts: 7998
Location: ʎɹʇunoɔ ǝsoɹ pןıʍ
OK, so I decided not to obsess too much about the parts and I pulled the trigger on two items. The Dan Hunter book Bill mentioned and a Marsh Amps 5E3 kit.

Details as follows:

5E3 kit with laquered tweed
Fender Deluxe Logo
Sprague filter caps
Jupiter condenser caps
Mercury Magnetics O/T
Weber Signature 12A
Amp Cover

I chose the speaker for earlier break up but may also buy a 12A125A or other if that turns out to be too crunchy. I'll take a look at the parts before I start to assemble and maybe get some upgrades if necessary, like the Carling switches and Switchcraft jacks, etc. The book will be here in a couple of days and the amp will likely take a few weeks. That will give me some time to read the book before I start working on it. I already have a book here at home that has been gathering dust which I don't think I've ever read. It's called The Complete Guide To Guitar and Amp Maintenance by Ritchie Fliegler (Hal Leonard).

It's going to cost me about CAN$ 1,100 including shipping to Alberta. The guy I mentioned in Saskatchewan who uses the NOS Astron caps wants about the same amount for one of his already built but there would be shipping on top of that and he only gives a 3 month warranty on his build. Since there's basically no warranty I decided to build one myself and get the personal satisfaction.

_________________
Image
Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Build Your Own Amp - 2
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:27 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:19 pm
Posts: 8827
BMW-KTM wrote:
OK, so I decided not to obsess too much about the parts and I pulled the trigger on two items. The Dan Hunter book Bill mentioned and a Marsh Amps 5E3 kit.

Details as follows:

5E3 kit with laquered tweed
Fender Deluxe Logo
Sprague filter caps
Jupiter condenser caps
Mercury Magnetics O/T
Weber Signature 12A
Amp Cover

I chose the speaker for earlier break up but may also buy a 12A125A or other if that turns out to be too crunchy. I'll take a look at the parts before I start to assemble and maybe get some upgrades if necessary, like the Carling switches and Switchcraft jacks, etc. The book will be here in a couple of days and the amp will likely take a few weeks. That will give me some time to read the book before I start working on it. I already have a book here at home that has been gathering dust which I don't think I've ever read. It's called The Complete Guide To Guitar and Amp Maintenance by Ritchie Fliegler (Hal Leonard).
It's going to cost me about CAN$ 1,100 including shipping to Alberta. The guy I mentioned in Saskatchewan who uses the NOS Astron caps wants about the same amount for one of his already built but there would be shipping on top of that and he only gives a 3 month warranty on his build. Since there's basically no warranty I decided to build one myself and get the personal satisfaction.



Three months warranty? Tells you how much confidence he has in his build. You're better off having the satisfaction of building your own. That in itself is worth way more than the price of admission. The 12a125a is what Weber recommended to me foe a little more authentic tone. I'm real happy with it. The 5e3 doesn't have a whole lot of headroom to begin with. I wouldn't want any earlier breakup, but that's all a matter of taste.

_________________
Life...... It's sexually transmitted and always fatal


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Build Your Own Amp - 2
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:31 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:49 pm
Posts: 838
BMW-KTM wrote:
OK, so I decided not to obsess too much about the parts and I pulled the trigger on two items. The Dan Hunter book Bill mentioned and a Marsh Amps 5E3 kit.
...
    Hi BMW-KTM. I too am looking forward to one day building my own amp but that's not going to happen for a long while, so I'm really looking forward to your build thread.

    I didn't go through the parts list, but the cost at $1,000 seems rather high. If memory serves I believe Bill paid around $500 for his latest build and the 5E3 on the Weber site is also around the $500 mark (depending on specific parts).

    Good luck and post lots of pics.
    Cheers!
    BM


_________________
This is the Blues. Are you listening?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Build Your Own Amp - 2
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:42 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
Bluer Monkey wrote:
BMW-KTM wrote:
OK, so I decided not to obsess too much about the parts and I pulled the trigger on two items. The Dan Hunter book Bill mentioned and a Marsh Amps 5E3 kit.
...
    Hi BMW-KTM. I too am looking forward to one day building my own amp but that's not going to happen for a long while, so I'm really looking forward to your build thread.

    I didn't go through the parts list, but the cost at $1,000 seems rather high. If memory serves I believe Bill paid around $500 for his latest build and the 5E3 on the Weber site is also around the $500 mark (depending on specific parts).

    Good luck and post lots of pics.
    Cheers!
    BM



Marsh kits are quite a bit more expensive than the Webers. Don't forget the US/Canadian dollar exchange rates, shipping, and other fees to Canada. It all adds up.

_________________
Bill

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Build Your Own Amp - 2
Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:36 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:19 pm
Posts: 8827
Right now the exchange rate is pretty close about six cents on a dollar. They have some pretty high taxes and customs fees.

_________________
Life...... It's sexually transmitted and always fatal


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 72 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: