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Post subject: Re: Can't say goodbye ...
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:30 pm
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Bluer Monkey wrote:
...To give me an idea of the labor involved, how much time would you estimate is required to go through all the boards on a HRD and check for bad joints?.....a problem with the channel switching he would only need to check specific joints not every joint on the boards?...


The first time that you do it, it might take two hours to remove the knobs, pot nuts, jack nuts, board screws, swing the main board out and go over all of the joints on that board, and then reassemble. The tube socket board can be examined and re-soldered if necessary with that board still in place.

For channel switching problems, it's almost always the joints/traces around the 5-watt ceramic resistors and Zener diodes in the +/- 16 volt supply. Rarely, it can be a relay problem, or even more rarely an op-amp problem.

I can now do the job in about an hour, after having some practice removing the board many times for initial check and various mods and experiments. My next project is to remove the main board and install chip sockets for the op-amps that will allow me to try various types by simply pulling the existing and pushing in another.

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Post subject: Re: Can't say goodbye ...
Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:57 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
The first time that you do it, it might take two hours ... I can now do the job in about an hour, after having some practice removing the board many times for initial check and various mods and experiments.

For channel switching problems, it's almost always the joints/traces around the 5-watt ceramic resistors and Zener diodes in the +/- 16 volt supply. Rarely, it can be a relay problem, or even more rarely an op-amp problem.
    Thanks, shimmilou. I'll keep this in mind for the next time I need to visit the Fender certified tech.

    As for the channel switching issue, and please don't get the wrong idea that I actually understand what I'm about to ask, but wasn't the likely culprit R78 and R79 and/or the solder joints/traces for these resistors? Is the 5-watt ceramic resistor another name for R78 or R79?

        ... BTW, we're coming up to a week.
        The amp has been played for several hours a day every day and all I'm hearing is sweet, spanking, sounds.

Thanks & Cheers!
BM

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Post subject: Re: Can't say goodbye ...
Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:24 pm
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Bluer Monkey wrote:
Is the 5-watt ceramic resistor another name for R78 or R79?


I believe so.

We sometimes call them "concrete" as well because they resemble a cinder block to a degree.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Can't say goodbye ...
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:23 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Man 63supro, you seemingly get the oddball amps that are different from all of the others. :lol:

My HRDlx has chassis mounted output tube sockets, and so does every HRDlx, BDlx, BDvl, BDRI, that I've ever seen or heard of. My Twkr 40 is exactly the same type of chassis mounted output tube sockets. Both amps have the circuit boards soldered directly to the tube socket's solid leads, only the HRDlx leads are longer (bragging rights :lol: ) Both amps have the preamp tube sockets mounted to the circuit board, not chassis mounted. The circuit boards in the Twkr 40 might be of better construction than the Version I and II HRDlx, as the Twkr boards seem thicker.

It's simple, the output tube sockets are mounted to the chassis, just like in your picture, but instead of using a nut on the other side of the mounting screw, the HRDlx and the Twkr both use threaded shafts, with a circuit board attached to the other end of that threaded shaft. You could cut the shafts off, cut the socket leads, and remove the circuit board and the


output tube sockets will still be held firmly to the chassis. I know that you've pointed out before that your Egnater has chassis mounted output tube sockets, and I can see them also, just like the HRDlx. Flying leads are another story, neither the HRDlx nor the Twkr have flying leads, which has nothing to do with the fact that the sockets are chassis mounted in both amps.

HRDlx, chassis mounted tube sockets:


Image
Image

Twkr 40, chassis mounted output tube sockets:

Image





Like I said, we have different opinions of what a chassis mounted socket looks like and that ain't it. The Tweakers have had their own set of problems as do the Rebel 30.
I know how the tubes in my Rebel are mounted and they're solid. Maybe if I ever have to pull the Rebel's chassis I'll take a few photos.

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Last edited by 63supro on Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Can't say goodbye ...
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:36 pm
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63supro wrote:
Like I said, we have different opinions of what a chassis mounted socket looks like and that ain't it.


+1

This is my idea of what "chassis-mounted" sockets are understood to be......

Image

(my pre-CBS '64 Pro Amp)


Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Can't say goodbye ...
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:56 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
63supro wrote:
Like I said, we have different opinions of what a chassis mounted socket looks like and that ain't it.


+1

This is my idea of what "chassis-mounted" sockets are understood to be......

Image

(my pre-CBS '64



Arjay




Serious bottles connected to those properly mounted tube sockets Arjay.
I think we share the same opinion of what a real guitar amp is too. :lol:
That is how I mounted the sockets on my 5e3 clone too. :mrgreen:
I never understood mounting the socket flanges on the inside of the amp like the Hrdlx.

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Post subject: Re: Can't say goodbye ...
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:14 pm
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63supro wrote:
I think we share the same opinion of what a real guitar amp is too.


There's Fender amps.

Then there's Leo Fender amps.

And with every passing year there are less and less in common between the two.

:(

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Can't say goodbye ...
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:24 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
63supro wrote:
I think we share the same opinion of what a real guitar amp is too.


There's Fender amps.

Then there's Leo Fender amps.

And with every passing year there are less and less in common between the two.

:(

Arjay


I'm glad we can still hand build them ourselves and the circuits aren't some secret thing. :wink: Making excuses for poorly designed and poorly built amps just ain't my thing. If something's good and works for me, I say so. I won't polish a turd.

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Post subject: Re: Can't say goodbye ...
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:56 pm
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63supro wrote:
I'm glad we can still hand build them ourselves and the circuits aren't some secret thing.


+1000

As well, I'm glad that parts remain plentiful to keep Leo's priceless artifacts from joining their more modern brethren in the local landfill.

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Can't say goodbye ...
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:06 pm
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:lol: LMFAO! :lol:

So, it depends on which side of the chassis they are mounted? Mounted to the chassis on top and they are chassis mounted, but mounted to the chassis underneath and they are not?

Seriously funny! :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Can't say goodbye ...
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:38 pm
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The distinction is, the vintage installation does not rely on temperamental PCB's and flimsy ribbon cables, both of which are notorious for their propensity to cause problems.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Can't say goodbye ...
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:07 pm
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Oh, I agree, and I see what you are saying. Plus, the use of flying leads in the vintage amps virtually eliminates the stress on the socket joints, and no circuit board to stress either. I have even thought about cutting the long leads from the HRDlx output tube sockets and running wires to the circuit board to eliminate the stress........but I've only ever had to solder them once and done. And when taste-testing I've changed tubes in my HRDlx more than some people change underwear. :lol: I've not even had a problem with the circuit board mounted preamp socket joints, and I have tried probably a hundred different new tubes in those sockets over 15 years.

But, c'mon, the HRDlx has the output tube sockets mounted to the chassis, it's not a matter of opinion.

For reference, the HRDlx and Egnater output tube sockets look just like these, with two mounting tabs built right on them.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Chassis+mount+tube+sockets&FORM=HDRSC2

When it comes to tube sockets, there are only two choices, chassis mounted or circuit board mounted. The circuit board mounted sockets have no tabs to mount to the chassis. Is there a third choice for socket mounting? :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Can't say goodbye ...
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:23 pm
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I don't know if this counts or not but there is a third choice for *tube* mounting.

I was once tasked to maintain a large number of Soviet-made vacuum-tube radios (tactical transceiver types) from the 1970s and there were no sockets whatsoever. The tubes utilized soldered-in leads, connected directly to a turret-type board. And the provided schematics and tech manuals were all printed in Cyrillic. The tubes themselves were very novel, resembling a neon bulb such as you'd find in a simple continuity tester only much larger, with multiple leads fed through the bottom. Talk about "adventures in troubleshooting"!

:lol:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Can't say goodbye ...
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:59 pm
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Oh yeah! I ran across a pair of 12AX7s once that were soldered directly to the board....maybe an SVT, I forget which amp it was. I decided that those tubes were good and left them. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Can't say goodbye ...
Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:14 am
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shimmilou wrote:
:lol: LMFAO! :lol:

So, it depends on which side of the chassis they are mounted? Mounted to the chassis on top and they are chassis mounted, but mounted to the chassis underneath and they are not?

Seriously funny! :lol:



It sure does, why do you thing there's so much flex between the socket and the board? It's a fact. When everything is mounted on the same side of the chassis, the chassis no longer supports anything only the screws do. It creates a pivot point. The insertion side needs to be stable. Everything is merely attached, not supported. Leo knew this as did every other old school amp manufacturer. I used to build machinery for the pharmaceutical industry and this was explained to me by a field engineer. A hundred tubes? LMFAO I guess you have Velcro on that back panel. I'm glad I spend more time playing music than playing with tubes and repairing and taking photos of the inside of my amps. You sir are the great defender of the Hrd series and I bow to you. :lol: Just kidding Lou it's all in fun.

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Last edited by 63supro on Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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