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Post subject: I'm afraid of buying a Fender amp. Again...
Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:47 pm
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Hey! Let me tell you my story..

I bought a Blues Junior III last summer, very nice looking in it's navy blue (FSR with V30) and indeed very good sounding. Everything I want from an amp. After a week or so i noticed a kind of high-pitched buzz coming from the reverb. Very subtle, but yet very annoying. Took it back to the shop, they sent it for repair, came back with a new tank. I was happy again until I plugged it in. Same problem.. At that point I was concerned about the reliability of the amp and changed it for a Vox AC-15.

And here comes my problem. Now my Vox is acting up all weird with a ticking (like a watch) sound when a cable is plugged into the input jack. Since this is the 2nd time this is going for repair aswell I'm tired of that piece of sh*t. And I want to go back to a Bl Jr again, but during the last time I've read alot of threads with people having problem with their amps. And I don't want to go down the same road again, although I want the Fender sound. It suits me. I play funk and classic rock, and I feel Fender is the way to go.

(BTW, may sound like I'm abusing my amps due to the fact that both have been crap, but tbh I never gigged the Fender and the Vox has been outside my house twice, once for the repair and the second time for a small gig in church.)

Do you guys have any guidance for me?
Sincerely,
Johan

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Post subject: Re: I'm afraid of buying a Fender amp. Again...
Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:08 pm
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Hi Johan, I wouldn't expect much from todays mass-production, mass-profit mentality, be it from Fender or Vox (who has been entirely China-based since 2006). Also, 'THE' Fender sound is a very subjective thing. There have been many different circuit designs used over the years. You might also note a Blues Jr runs EL84 tubes, whereas the true Fender amps of age have historically run 6V6s and 6L6s, and it loses a lot of points with people for that reason, lesser quality control aside.

You might look at building your own hand-wired amp. Sites such as mojotone provide kits and instructions to get you off the ground easily and build your own self-satisfactory, quality amp that gets you so much more for your money. If this isn't an option or you would not like a build, have a look at used USA Fender amps most preferably from the early 00's or earlier, as these will predate the ROHS compliant solder and come from a time (not so long ago...) when superior quality control was being employed.


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Post subject: Re: I'm afraid of buying a Fender amp. Again...
Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:26 pm
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Toronado wrote:
Also, 'THE' Fender sound is a very subjective thing. There have been many different circuit designs used over the years. You might also note a Blues Jr runs EL84 tubes, whereas the true Fender amps of age have historically run 6V6s and 6L6s, and it loses a lot of points with people for that reason, lesser quality control aside.


+1

The last amps produced that were noteworthy for the true Fender tone were discontinued in 1981. New engineers were brought on board at that time to replace those who'd worked for Leo but were retiring. Some of the new designers were truly gifted but they didn't function well in the profit-driven environment and they too soon departed, replaced by corporate-compliant personnel who obeyed the mantra of "make it quick, make it cheap, and make it disposable".

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: I'm afraid of buying a Fender amp. Again...
Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:59 pm
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If I weren't so thrifty (cheap) I'd get this Fender sound-a like:
http://www.redplateamps.com/bluesmachine.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0NQ4lnCIMg
On a positive note relative to Fenders, the warranty is good and the warranty network extensive. So, eventually it will be fixed properly at no cost. Doesn't alleviate the aggravation, and shouldn't be this way, but the price tag is far less. Pick your poison.
I sure would like one of these RedPlate BluesMachines, however.

Arjay,
They're made in your state, are you familiar with them? Opinion?

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Post subject: Re: I'm afraid of buying a Fender amp. Again...
Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:01 pm
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A Cadillac warranty counts for precisely DICK when you're stuck high and dry on a live stage with a dead amp.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: I'm afraid of buying a Fender amp. Again...
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:17 am
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Yes, but it sure beats a kick in the nuts. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: I'm afraid of buying a Fender amp. Again...
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:42 am
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Jooiie wrote:
Hey! Let me tell you my story..

I bought a Blues Junior III last summer, very nice looking in it's navy blue (FSR with V30) and indeed very good sounding. Everything I want from an amp. After a week or so i noticed a kind of high-pitched buzz coming from the reverb. Very subtle, but yet very annoying. Took it back to the shop, they sent it for repair, came back with a new tank. I was happy again until I plugged it in. Same problem.. At that point I was concerned about the reliability of the amp and changed it for a Vox AC-15.

And here comes my problem. Now my Vox is acting up all weird with a ticking (like a watch) sound when a cable is plugged into the input jack. Since this is the 2nd time this is going for repair aswell I'm tired of that piece of sh*t. And I want to go back to a Bl Jr again, but during the last time I've read alot of threads with people having problem with their amps. And I don't want to go down the same road again, although I want the Fender sound. It suits me. I play funk and classic rock, and I feel Fender is the way to go.

(BTW, may sound like I'm abusing my amps due to the fact that both have been crap, but tbh I never gigged the Fender and the Vox has been outside my house twice, once for the repair and the second time for a small gig in church.)

Do you guys have any guidance for me?
Sincerely,
Johan


Honestly your frustration doesn't sound new to me. I had a very similar situation this spring. I could go into detail but I would rather not bring up the exact problems again. However, I can say that I think the biggest problem is shipping tube amps. Tubes are fragile and heavy amps are a pain to ship. I'm going to eventually buy a '65 Princeton Reverb reissue and I plan on purchasing some tubes shortly after. It is in my assumption that a retube will fix 75% of the problems.


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Post subject: Re: I'm afraid of buying a Fender amp. Again...
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:11 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
A Cadillac warranty counts for precisely DICK when you're stuck high and dry on a live stage with a dead amp.

Arjay

I have a spare head in the vehicle should that occur.

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Post subject: Re: I'm afraid of buying a Fender amp. Again...
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:00 am
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somethingelse11 wrote:
Jooiie wrote:
Hey! Let me tell you my story..

I bought a Blues Junior III last summer, very nice looking in it's navy blue (FSR with V30) and indeed very good sounding. Everything I want from an amp. After a week or so i noticed a kind of high-pitched buzz coming from the reverb. Very subtle, but yet very annoying. Took it back to the shop, they sent it for repair, came back with a new tank. I was happy again until I plugged it in. Same problem.. At that point I was concerned about the reliability of the amp and changed it for a Vox AC-15.

And here comes my problem. Now my Vox is acting up all weird with a ticking (like a watch) sound when a cable is plugged into the input jack. Since this is the 2nd time this is going for repair aswell I'm tired of that piece of sh*t. And I want to go back to a Bl Jr again, but during the last time I've read alot of threads with people having problem with their amps. And I don't want to go down the same road again, although I want the Fender sound. It suits me. I play funk and classic rock, and I feel Fender is the way to go.



(BTW, may sound like I'm abusing my amps due to the fact that both have been crap, but tbh I never gigged the Fender and the Vox has been outside my house twice, once for the repair and the second time for a small gig in church.)

Do you guys have any guidance for me?
Sincerely,
Johan


Honestly your frustration doesn't sound new to me. I had a very similar situation this spring. I could go into detail but I would rather not bring up the exact problems again. However, I can say that I think the biggest problem is shipping tube amps. Tubes are fragile and heavy amps are a pain to ship. I'm going to eventually buy a '65 Princeton Reverb reissue and I plan on purchasing some tubes shortly after. It is in my assumption that a retube will fix 75% of the problems.


It's not the tubes as much as all the shortcuts being taken in design and manufacture.
This is why I build my own now. I'm thinking about either a BYOC Royal Tweed or a Supro Thunderbolt. The amps I build don't have to exactly replicate the vintage tones, just sound great and be reliable. If they fail on me, it's probably going to be my own fault. Six months since my last major build and all is well.

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Post subject: Re: I'm afraid of buying a Fender amp. Again...
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:06 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
A Cadillac warranty counts for precisely DICK when you're stuck high and dry on a live stage with a dead amp.

Arjay

Years ago Fender gave us a one year warranty and I never used it on any of my amps, not once on my Vibrolux Reverb, Princeton, Bandmaster, Deluxe Reverb or my Twin. They were all heavily rehearsed and gigged. I had a five year warranty HRDlx and used it four times in three months.
Build quality and reliability are way more important than any warranty IMO.

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Post subject: Re: I'm afraid of buying a Fender amp. Again...
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:53 am
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I've owned many Fender amps over the years and the only trouble I've ever had with any of them was a blown output transformer on my '69 Bandmaster-Reverb head. That design used a 35 watt output transformer on an amp that put out 45 watts. No wonder it failed.
My current amps are: '69 Bandmaster-Reverb, '73 Super-Reverb, 2-Blues Juniors NOS tweed, Blues Deluxe, Hot Rod Deville 212, '65 Priceton-Reverb RI, '65 Twin-Reverb RI, and new this past week a new Custom Vibrolux.
:)
I played the Super-Reverb for a living throughout most of the '70s without any problems.
Currently my '65 Princeton-Reverb and the Custom Vibrolux get the most use. So far so good!

And for the record, no, I am not affiliated with Fender and don't know anyone who is. :)

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Post subject: Re: I'm afraid of buying a Fender amp. Again...
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:57 am
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Probably a good thing that none of those vintage amps ever saw UPS, or we might well have a different story. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: I'm afraid of buying a Fender amp. Again...
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:41 pm
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Wow, what a respone I got! Great :D

Ofc the real fender sound is from the vintage amps, I guess I could say I want a more Fenderesque tone than my Vox provides. ;)

I've actually thought about building a kit. I know how to solder, I make all my instrument cables myself and when I have some more $$ I'm gonna buy some pedal kits to get more familiar with soldering to boards. But I'm quite scared at building a kit aswell. On Weber's homepage there is a difficulty scale on each kit, and I've been thinking of building something like a Princeton or Deluxe Reverb clone. But that scale is maxed out, whereas a tweed kit such as the 5e3 is down low, and that frightens me tbh :roll:

Toronado, I kind of liked what you said about the early 00's amp. Are you saying that they are better quality? I've seen some US-made Blues Juniors here in Sweden that go quite cheap. Since I plan on doing the BillM mods sooner or later they would almost sound the same, right?

Jooiie

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Post subject: Re: I'm afraid of buying a Fender amp. Again...
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:54 pm
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What I've seen with the Blues Jr's is if you run them through a larger cabinet, the sound will improve more than any Billm mod will do and not void a warranty. I've tried some of my friends Blues Jr's and an extension cab works wonders. The stock cab for the Blues Jr seems to have been built for portability rather than tone. A long standing member Chet Feathers put one in a larger beautiful wood cabinet and I'm sure it sounds as good as it looks.

If you want a Classic Fender sound, you won't find it with EL84 power tubes. 6V6 or 6L6 are pretty much required. The EL84 powered amps are Fender, mostly because it says Fender on the plate, but not what I consider a classic Fender sound.
The 5e3 kit I built came from Tube Depot.
http://tubedepot.com/kit-tweeddeluxe.html
It came with Classic Tone transformers. I changed the stock speaker to a Weber. Sounds awesome. You can look at the instructions. It's not bad at all. Mine fired up first shot, no problems.

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Post subject: Re: I'm afraid of buying a Fender amp. Again...
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:25 pm
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My '69 Bandmaster fell over backwards once on a concrete floor (ouch!), and my vintage '73 Super-Reverb survived roadies! lol

shimmilou wrote:
Probably a good thing that none of those vintage amps ever saw UPS, or we might well have a different story. :wink:

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