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Post subject: Re: HELP - Scorch marks on PCB of Hot Rod Deluxe 3
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:46 am
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I haven't measured the thickness, but it looks to be. Why not measure yours, and I'll pop the back off of mine and measure. The only pictures that I have seen are of a HRDvl, and it even has double-sided, through-hole boards. I like the pictures, showing that the output tube sockets are chassis mounted, and the board is mounted on the sockets and chassis, clearly not board mounted sockets as seems to be a popular misconception. The HRds have always had chassis mounted output tube sockets, except for the BJr and PJr.

http://www.thefenderforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=567695&mode=linear#post567695

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Post subject: Re: HELP - Scorch marks on PCB of Hot Rod Deluxe 3
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:08 am
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shimmilou wrote:
Why not measure yours, and I'll pop the back off of mine and measure.

http://www.thefenderforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=567695&mode=linear#post567695


Managed to get a picture and it shows 1.5mm thickness. How's that compare with yours?

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Post subject: Re: HELP - Scorch marks on PCB of Hot Rod Deluxe 3
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:02 am
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Kluson56 wrote:
shimmilou wrote:
Kluson56 wrote:
...I am surprised they haven't sorted with the mkIII.


Really they have with the thicker board. The resistors themselves rarely, if ever, are the problem and they just don't fail. The problem has been the solder joints and traces on the underside of the board becoming brittle and failing due to the heat. This hasn't been nearly as much of a problem in the version III.



I've never seen inside the previous versions, is the board that much thicker in the mkIII.



I believe the through holes are plated now. I've read they're improved. Seems to be less problems than the previous version. Never seen the III's board. The one in mine was really cheesy. They ain't Mil Spec I can tell you that. Real flimsy with tons of flex.
The thing is these amps aren't built for the long haul if you do any kind of serious gigging.
My 74 Twin was thrown around in vans, cars and trailers for over 30 years with no problems.
The new Fender amps are built for profit and cool factor, not longevity.
When they started using the term NOS aka "New Old Stock" as a marketing term with no NOS parts, is when I lost respect for them.

The board in my Tweed Deluxe clone is double sided with plated through holes and is Mil Spec. A really nice board. I'm hoping it lasts. The 5 watt resistor on my clone is upgraded to an 250 ohm 8 watt Ohmite Brown Devil. Well worth the five bucks.

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Post subject: Re: HELP - Scorch marks on PCB of Hot Rod Deluxe 3
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:49 am
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Kluson56 wrote:
...Managed to get a picture and it shows 1.5mm thickness. How's that compare with yours?...


Hmmm. Using digital calipers, I get right at 1.5 mm also. Yours looks thicker.

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Post subject: Re: HELP - Scorch marks on PCB of Hot Rod Deluxe 3
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:54 am
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shimmilou wrote:
Kluson56 wrote:
...Managed to get a picture and it shows 1.5mm thickness. How's that compare with yours?...


Hmmm. Using digital calipers, I get right at 1.5 mm also. Yours looks thicker.



I'll see if I can get a more accurate measurement.


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Post subject: Re: HELP - Scorch marks on PCB of Hot Rod Deluxe 3
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:00 pm
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I couldn't get my calipers on a good spot on the main board while viewing the display, so I measured the tube socket board, but presume that they are the same thickness.

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Post subject: Re: HELP - Scorch marks on PCB of Hot Rod Deluxe 3
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:37 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
I couldn't get my calipers on a good spot on the main board while viewing the display, so I measured the tube socket board, but presume that they are the same thickness.



I used a very old micrometer which has illegible readings so I placed it onto a steel rule as you can see here. It indicates closer to 2mm, maybe 1.9mm as I have gone slightly past the face of the mic on the left. Using an iPhone to take the picture made getting it lined up a bit more difficult. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: HELP - Scorch marks on PCB of Hot Rod Deluxe 3
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:46 pm
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Thank you very much! I was sure that they were thicker on the version III, and I know it's not much, but no doubt that it helps. Great job with your pictures. 8)

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Post subject: Re: HELP - Scorch marks on PCB of Hot Rod Deluxe 3
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:51 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Thank you very much! I was sure that they were thicker on the version III, and I know it's not much, but no doubt that it helps. Great job with your pictures. 8)


Thanks, made me realise I need to invest in some new tools, that mic must be over 40 years old. :oops:


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Post subject: Re: HELP - Scorch marks on PCB of Hot Rod Deluxe 3
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:10 pm
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I had this similar problem on my Music Man. The fix was $62.95 to clean and retrace the PCB and replace the 5watt resistors and the zeners. Prices obviously subject to hourly bench rates, assume an hour of bench time, plus the parts.

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Post subject: Re: HELP - Scorch marks on PCB of Hot Rod Deluxe 3
Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:08 am
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rflindall wrote:
I had this similar problem on my Music Man. The fix was $62.95 to clean and retrace the PCB and replace the 5watt resistors and the zeners. Prices obviously subject to hourly bench rates, assume an hour of bench time, plus the parts.


Hopefully it won't get that far. I'm guessing the solder connections and trace are still ok as I'm not experiencing the problems associated to these faults.

I'll have to keep an eye on it just in case.


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Post subject: Re: HELP - Scorch marks on PCB of Hot Rod Deluxe 3
Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:55 am
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This is just a badly designed board - the resistors should be lifted away from the board and not flat on it! The other problem is this heats up the caps next to them it (which are only 85 degree operatoin) drying out the electrolyte and shortening their life as happened in mine after a year. Have lifted the resistors off the board and installed Nippon-Chemi-Con 105 Degree caps. (in fact I replaced all the caps with Nippon who are the only manufacturer who make thier own foil and electrolyte)


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Post subject: Re: HELP - Scorch marks on PCB of Hot Rod Deluxe 3
Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:53 am
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Hi Kennykoosticks,

Yes, raising the resistors off of the board can help a lot. You really should make sure to support the resistors somehow as vibration can still cause solder joint or trace problems with the lifted resistors. My resistors have little bumps on each end of the underside, allowing them to be secured to the board but still allow air flow underneath.

I still don't know why the voltage in this supply is so high to begin with. The Devilles have an identical circuit, except that the AC supply is much lower, producing less heat, and the Devilles do not have the same scorching as the Deluxes.

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