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Post subject: help with tubes
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 6:56 pm
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I have a Champion 600, and have decided that it's time to upgrade to some better tubes. Can anyone make any suggestions? I am new to the realm of tubes so I have no idea where to begin. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks. :)


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Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:26 pm
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To hear a real tonal difference you will have
to invest in some good high quality tubes-
such as GT's gold series or other MFG's with gold pins.
Be prepared to spend some money.
check-out tube suppliers like www.dougstubes.com
and ask their advice on tubes.

You might also consider upgrading the speaker.

Good luck on your quest.

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Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:00 am
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I never liked Groove Tubes. You could try JJ's, Winged C's, Tung Sol etc.


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Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 2:36 pm
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When someone asks for tube advice on forums
such as this one, user's personal preference begins to
play a big part. Ask the suppliers they will have the best
answers.

Going by user's opinions is hard because every amp will sound
a little different depending on the amp itself and the speaker configuration.

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Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 4:04 pm
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Quote:
When someone asks for tube advice on forums
such as this one, user's personal preference begins to
play a big part. Ask the suppliers they will have the best
answers.

Going by user's opinions is hard because every amp will sound
a little different depending on the amp itself and the speaker configuration.


Thanks. :D


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Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:52 pm
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You don't need gold pins or cryogenic tubes.


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Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 7:25 pm
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63supro wrote:
You don't need gold pins or cryogenic tubes.


I can understand not "cryogenic tubes" but why not
tubes with "gold pins"?

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Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:18 am
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+1 for JJs. You don't need gold pins on the output side but they did seem to make a difference for me in the preamp.


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Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 8:48 pm
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[quote]+1 for JJs. You don't need gold pins on the output side but they did seem to make a difference for me in the preamp.[/quote

Could you tell me how the set of JJs sound? Everyone reccomends them.


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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:34 am
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They seem to have a more balanced mellow tone to them. The stock GT's seem a little harsher without as much low end. This is all pretty subjective, but that's the way they sound to my ears. I even swapped the GTs back just to see if was a perception just because I changed them out, but the GTs still sounded harsher. Try a set, even with the gold pin 12AX7 you're out less than $40.


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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 5:05 pm
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Can anyone tell me if the power tubes make a big difference in the distortion? I am new to tubes so any tips would also be appreciated.


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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:29 pm
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I find that gold pins and plugs for that matter of any king aren't worth sometimes more than twice the price of a tube or a cord. Personally I think it's all hype. In the late 60's and early 70's I never heard of anyone using them. Most of the tones people want today came from that era.
That said, talk to Bob at Eurotubes if you want to try JJ's. Be aware that they are the only tubes he sells. Bob is extremely knowledgeable and an all around good guy. I use his JJ's Blues option#1. It was my last resort for my Hot Rod Deluxe. I was going to dump it because the drive channels were horrible. The amp was only a few months old. The tube change and bias adjustment made it sound like a brand new amp.


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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 8:07 pm
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Quote:
Can anyone tell me if the power tubes make a big difference in the distortion? I am new to tubes so any tips would also be appreciated.


Most of the distortion takes place in the preamp. Something less than 20% is the output tubes and speaker. In fact if you want a cheap path to tube sound you can get a lot of it by buying a cheap tube preamp and running your guitar through that into your solid state amp. One of my practice setups uses an ART Tube MP Studio preamp into a Fender Bullet 150. You will pick up some noise doing it that way though.


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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 8:18 pm
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63supro-
You are entitled to your opinion, but I'm surprised you feel that way.
Standard grade tubes have steel pins.
Premium grade tubes have gold pins.
Gold pin tubes are generally the highest quality and are designed with low microphonics and low noise. Gold pin tubes also test superior in tone/gain, reliable performance, transconductance.

Just as important as the types of tubes, the brands of tubes make a huge difference in tone. For examlpe, if you took a NOS Tung-Sol 5881 and compared it to a Philips 5881, and compared them to a Sovtek 5881, you would be amazed. The reason these sound so different is because the plates are made from different alloys, the cathodes are coated with different chemicals and there are many other variations in manufacture such as content of inert gases, grid material, base material, internal capacitance, etc.

You may feel "it's all hype", but because of the facts listed above it entails a bit more than just "hype".

hottrod-

the power tubes' have to be driving into clipping before they distort the signal. "Soft Clipping" is a very important aspect of tube sound.

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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:09 pm
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Respecfully, you too are entitled to your opinion as am I. If you like gold pin tubes and they work for you, by all means buy them and enjoy them. Do you mean that tubes without gold pins are not quality tubes or are somehow sub-standard? I'm saying you don't need them to sound great. How many NOS tubes have gold pins? These tubes are sought by many. I used them before they were NOS tubes. That was what we had and I don't remember gold pins.

In the 40+ years I've been a musician, and Close to 30 years as a professional musician, none of the other musicians I know use them either. I'm not saying none do, I just never met any and that includes session musicians. I have owned rented and borrowed just about every amp imaginable from Fender, Supro, Sunn, Danelectro, Silvertone, Marshall and Orange amps and I don't think my tone ever suffered because I didn't use tubes with gold pins. I have never performed with a solid state amp and for over 20 years used no effect pedals but rather used lower wattage amps, my guitars volume control and tube distortion.
By the way, 5881 tubes made today are far from the originals. I don't care for Sovtek either. My HRDlx came with Sovtek 5881's and sounded like garbage.
I'm pretty much retired now and just play local venues and festivals with friends as a guest for fun.

The thing is, you can get caught up in a bunch of high tech stuff. Remember rack mounts? Your audience won't sit there and say wow, he sounds great, he must have gold pins on his tubes.

I've seen musicians sound incredible using equipment most young players would call junk, using home-made patch cords with electrical tape wrapped around them.

Don't believe everything you read. Believe what you hear.
Take Care


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