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Post subject: Who knew?
Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:25 am
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I sure as heck didn't . Learn something new all the time.
http://www.fender.com/news/is-it-tolex/

I just recently learned about the tech talk section of the website. A lot of interesting and useful articles regarding several subjects. I had a lot of fun scrolling through them.

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Post subject: Re: Who knew?
Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:05 pm
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Yes there are no more Tolex since long time.


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Post subject: Re: Who knew?
Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:02 pm
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Which is probably why I haven't bought a new Fender amp in a long time.

They have no mojo.

:(

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Who knew?
Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:05 pm
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Is it likely that Fender amps made before 2002 or so would be covered with Tolex?

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Post subject: Re: Who knew?
Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:22 pm
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I fail to see the difference. The article even states that it's like Xerox and Kleenex referring to photocopies and tissue paper. There's lots of equal or even superior photocopiers that are not Xerox brand or tissue paper that isn't Kleenex brand.

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Post subject: Re: Who knew?
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:37 am
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Powdered Toast Man wrote:
I fail to see the difference. The article even states that it's like Xerox and Kleenex referring to photocopies and tissue paper. There's lots of equal or even superior photocopiers that are not Xerox brand or tissue paper that isn't Kleenex brand.



+1

The most important is the quality of the electronics. This is where the failures come, not from the Tolex or vinyl.


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Post subject: Re: Who knew?
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:52 am
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Powdered Toast Man wrote:
I fail to see the difference. The article even states that it's like Xerox and Kleenex referring to photocopies and tissue paper. There's lots of equal or even superior photocopiers that are not Xerox brand or tissue paper that isn't Kleenex brand.


But of course.

And there are thousands of guitarists who are ignorant of the benefits of a finger-joined solid pine cabinet as opposed to heavy-but-flimsy MDF construction common with most amp contemporary amps, unappreciative of an all-steel chassis populated with mil-spec components as opposed to shake-and-bake CMOS chips manufactured offshore, and oblivious of the fact that their "special design" speakers have all the sonic charm of a galvanized-steel garbage-can lid.

Bottom line?

There will never be a finer mass-produced amp than a 1965 Fender Super Reverb or a 1964 Fender Bassman.

EVER!

There'll be "newer" and "cheaper" and "fancier", but there will none better.

Period, end of story, nothing follows.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Who knew?
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:16 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Powdered Toast Man wrote:
I fail to see the difference. The article even states that it's like Xerox and Kleenex referring to photocopies and tissue paper. There's lots of equal or even superior photocopiers that are not Xerox brand or tissue paper that isn't Kleenex brand.


But of course.

And there are thousands of guitarists who are ignorant of the benefits of a finger-joined solid pine cabinet as opposed to heavy-but-flimsy MDF construction common with most amp contemporary amps, unappreciative of an all-steel chassis populated with mil-spec components as opposed to shake-and-bake CMOS chips manufactured offshore, and oblivious of the fact that their "special design" speakers have all the sonic charm of a galvanized-steel garbage-can lid.

Bottom line?





There will never be a finer mass-produced amp than a 1965 Fender Super Reverb or a 1964 Fender Bassman.

EVER!

There'll be "newer" and "cheaper" and "fancier", but there will none better.

Period, end of story, nothing follows.

Arjay


+1,000!!!!!!
I can't see the current production amps being anything but landfill in 20 years or so if you do any kind of serious gigging with them. Tolex was a much tougher product than the textured vinyl that lasted for decades.

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Post subject: Re: Who knew?
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:00 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
There will never be a finer mass-produced amp than a 1965 Fender Super Reverb or a 1964 Fender Bassman.

EVER!


If you really, really like a 1965 Fender Super Reverb or a 1964 Fender Bassman, then you're probably right.

Bit of a generalisation though, and certainly not true for everyone. :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Who knew?
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:04 am
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Even Leo believed in progress and moving forward, that is how the great Fender gear came about in the first place. If he decided to not try better or re-invent after his first product, then we would only have the first edition Telecasters. To some that may be just fine but to others it just was not good enough. So because some of us treasure a certain era in music history does not cheapen my appreciation for modern attempts and manufacturing of today's musical gear.

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Post subject: Re: Who knew?
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:07 am
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Making poor quality products was not what Leo had in mind. All these companies not just Fender are great at marketing low quality, mediocre sounding, high profit products. Fender were a great example of form and function.
Why do you think, boutique companies like Victoria, Dr Z etc. are doing so well? Growing up in the 60's and 70's I was brought up with great sounding gear. I have a reference point that many young players don't have. They have the HRD series and think they sound great and they pretty much are used to the landfill technology of just getting new stuff when the stuff you have goes obsolete. I'm all over new technology, but I want it to be reliable. I don't so much worry about the the cost if it will last me decades instead of months. That's why I started building my own stuff.

Years ago, amps weren't cheap. That $300 for a 66 Vibrolux Reverb or Strat was comparable to $1,200-$1,400 in today's market. My first car was $66 a month, but that was a lot of cash in 1975.

Like I said, if all you're used to is mediocre stuff it's fine.

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Post subject: Re: Who knew?
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:58 am
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I can't argue against poor quality, the hit rate on good quality does seem to be lower in this day and age, but that could easily change overnight if someone revolutionary comes along to shake things up. However when it comes to sound, that is all subjective. When an amp sounds good it could just as easily be a vintage or a modern amp getting the job done.

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Post subject: Re: Who knew?
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:51 pm
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Speaking of Tolex - This cracks me up for 2 reasons:

- That back in 1962 "luxurious Tolex®" would be considered a big selling point

- The fact that this amp (and almost everything on this site) is this immaculate and still has these hangtags

Enjoy. Between this shop and Grinning Elk, always lots of unobtainium Fenders to drool over...

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Post subject: Re: Who knew?
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:47 pm
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Sooo... the article states that Fender stopped using "Tolex" brand covering around 2000. So that means that everything beyond 2000 is crap?

Quote:
Tolex was a much tougher product than the textured vinyl that lasted for decades.


Since they've only stopped using "Tolex" (TM) about a decade ago, what's your source on this? Have all the amps made in 2001 had their covering fall to pieces?

Quote:
And there are thousands of guitarists who are ignorant of the benefits of a finger-joined solid pine cabinet as opposed to heavy-but-flimsy MDF construction common with most amp contemporary amps, unappreciative of an all-steel chassis populated with mil-spec components as opposed to shake-and-bake CMOS chips manufactured offshore, and oblivious of the fact that their "special design" speakers have all the sonic charm of a galvanized-steel garbage-can lid.


Fair enough, but we're talking about the covering on the amp, not the construction OF the amp or cabinet.

I'll also point out that NO ONE NOTICED until this article pointed it out. And this is the stuff covering the entire exterior of every Fender amp made since 2000. Not like it was hidden underneath or something.

TOLEX = Textured vinyl
Textured vinyl = TOLEX

TOLEX (TM) is a brand name of a textured vinyl product.

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Post subject: Re: Who knew?
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:06 pm
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I've known since 2001, which is the last year in which the word "Tolex" was used in a Frontline catalog. And it's been downhill for the home team ever since.

Arjay

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