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Post subject: Re: (First) 5E3 Tweed Deluxe Build
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:38 am
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bluesky636 wrote:
DrewMeyer wrote:
Well, after grounding the green/yellow wire, the hum significantly decreased. However, there is still a bit of noticeable hum and I discovered another problem, too. When I put the amp into standby, there is a bunch of static and the signal doesn't go entirely quite. Any help here?


Check all your wiring for solid solder joints and clean layout. Post a photo of the wired chassis. You do not want to have wires carrying AC, particularly the heater wires, running parallel with signal wires.

Right after posting my question I went and checked my wiring and discovered I had the two wires running into the standby switch reversed and after fixing that the standby works great. There's still some hum so I'll try grounding the output jack and see where I'll need to go from there. Thanks again for all the help, guys. I seriously would never have been able to do it without all your knowledge.


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Post subject: Re: (First) 5E3 Tweed Deluxe Build
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:53 am
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DrewMeyer wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
DrewMeyer wrote:
Well, after grounding the green/yellow wire, the hum significantly decreased. However, there is still a bit of noticeable hum and I discovered another problem, too. When I put the amp into standby, there is a bunch of static and the signal doesn't go entirely quite. Any help here?


Check all your wiring for solid solder joints and clean layout. Post a photo of the wired chassis. You do not want to have wires carrying AC, particularly the heater wires, running parallel with signal wires.

Right after posting my question I went and checked my wiring and discovered I had the two wires running into the standby switch reversed and after fixing that the standby works great. There's still some hum so I'll try grounding the output jack and see where I'll need to go from there. Thanks again for all the help, guys. I seriously would never have been able to do it without all your knowledge.


Unless you used isolation washers on your output jack, it is connected directly to the metal chassis and is therefore grounded. There is nothing else to do to the jack. You need to check your wiring layout and make sure that the wire dress provides adequate space between power and signal wires. Please post a photo of the wired chassis.

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Post subject: Re: (First) 5E3 Tweed Deluxe Build
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:49 am
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Switching the wires on the standby switch does nothing. The switch is either open or closed, it doesn't matter which way the two wires connect. :idea:

You should do as bluesky636 suggested, check all of your wiring. Likely that since you stated with the Fender layout and then switched to the Weber schematic, you have a mix of wiring, and the difference between the two is probably where the problem lies.

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Post subject: Re: (First) 5E3 Tweed Deluxe Build
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:30 am
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shimmilou wrote:
Switching the wires on the standby switch does nothing. The switch is either open or closed, it doesn't matter which way the two wires connect. :idea:

You should do as bluesky636 suggested, check all of your wiring. Likely that since you stated with the Fender layout and then switched to the Weber schematic, you have a mix of wiring, and the difference between the two is probably where the problem lies.

One of the wires must have been solder poorly then, because switching them fixed the problem. Some hum is the only problem I have now. I'll get a picture of the insides posted later after school.


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Post subject: Re: (First) 5E3 Tweed Deluxe Build
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:15 am
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DrewMeyer wrote:
shimmilou wrote:
Switching the wires on the standby switch does nothing. The switch is either open or closed, it doesn't matter which way the two wires connect. :idea:

You should do as bluesky636 suggested, check all of your wiring. Likely that since you stated with the Fender layout and then switched to the Weber schematic, you have a mix of wiring, and the difference between the two is probably where the problem lies.

One of the wires must have been solder poorly then, because switching them fixed the problem. Some hum is the only problem I have now. I'll get a picture of the insides posted later after school.


"Some" hum is normal in many amps. An audio file with the amp powered up but no signal going through it would be helpful. Also, make sure that the shorting prong on the input jacks is properly grounded and makes good contact with the tip prong when no plug is inserted. Noise can be introduced if they do not make good contact.

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Post subject: Re: (First) 5E3 Tweed Deluxe Build
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:21 am
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bluesky636 wrote:
DrewMeyer wrote:
shimmilou wrote:
Switching the wires on the standby switch does nothing. The switch is either open or closed, it doesn't matter which way the two wires connect. :idea:

You should do as bluesky636 suggested, check all of your wiring. Likely that since you stated with the Fender layout and then switched to the Weber schematic, you have a mix of wiring, and the difference between the two is probably where the problem lies.

One of the wires must have been solder poorly then, because switching them fixed the problem. Some hum is the only problem I have now. I'll get a picture of the insides posted later after school.


"Some" hum is normal in many amps. An audio file with the amp powered up but no signal going through it would be helpful. Also, make sure that the shorting prong on the input jacks is properly grounded and makes good contact with the tip prong when no plug is inserted. Noise can be introduced if they do not make good contact.

How can I insure good contact? And by some hum, I mean more than normal, or at least more than my other tube amp.


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Post subject: Re: (First) 5E3 Tweed Deluxe Build
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:00 am
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DrewMeyer wrote:
How can I insure good contact? And by some hum, I mean more than normal, or at least more than my other tube amp.


I insert a phone plug to separate the two and then just bend the shorting prong very slightly closer to the tip prong so that when the plug is removed the two make solid contact.

Is your other tube amp a hand wired eyelet board like this amp or is it PCB based? It all gets back to proper lead dress of the wires. I have built a 5F6A Bassman clone and am currently building a Trainwreck Express clone. I have been very careful with the wire dress. The 5F6A is quieter than my PCB based Blues Deluxe Reissue. The Trainwreck clone I hope to power up for the first time this weekend.

5F6A
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Trainwreck
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Post subject: Re: (First) 5E3 Tweed Deluxe Build
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:53 am
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That "Wreckage" is looking very sweet. I hope you get to fire it up this weekend.

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Post subject: Re: (First) 5E3 Tweed Deluxe Build
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:16 pm
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modwiz wrote:
That "Wreckage" is looking very sweet. I hope you get to fire it up this weekend.


Gonna try. :D

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Post subject: Re: (First) 5E3 Tweed Deluxe Build
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:10 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
DrewMeyer wrote:
How can I insure good contact? And by some hum, I mean more than normal, or at least more than my other tube amp.


I insert a phone plug to separate the two and then just bend the shorting prong very slightly closer to the tip prong so that when the plug is removed the two make solid contact.

Is your other tube amp a hand wired eyelet board like this amp or is it PCB based? It all gets back to proper lead dress of the wires. I have built a 5F6A Bassman clone and am currently building a Trainwreck Express clone. I have been very careful with the wire dress. The 5F6A is quieter than my PCB based Blues Deluxe Reissue. The Trainwreck clone I hope to power up for the first time this weekend.

5F6A
Image

Trainwreck
Image

Hey those look very nice! My other amp is a 69 bandmaster built on an eyelet board and it's practically dead silent. What do you mean by lead dress, and what can I do if I improperly dressed the leads? Also, when I put it in a cab I could put shielding tape on the back panel and that would help reduce noise too, right?


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Post subject: Re: (First) 5E3 Tweed Deluxe Build
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:13 pm
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Thanks.

See how the wires are separated? Power wires are kept as far away from signal wires as possible. Where power and signal wires have to cross, they should do so as close to 90 degrees as possible. Try not to run power and signal side by side. You can't tell from these photos, but in the 5F6A, the heater wires are well below the signal wires at the tube sockets and tucked into the corner of the chassis fold. In the Trainwreck, the signal wires run along the underside of the chassis and the heater wires float above the signal wires. That was all done as I wired the amps. Sometimes if you have to move a wire it means unsoldering and resoldering the wire, maybe using a shorter or longer wire to get where you need to go.

I tried shielding tape on the back panel of the 5F6A. It made no real difference. If you do, you have to make sure the back panel is in physical contact with the chassis. I left a gap between the back panel and chassis of the 5F6A to allow heat to escape. It is quite noticable. The Trainwreck is a head, so I will put shielding tape on the cabinet floor where the amp chassis sits.

The 5F6A is very, very quiet. The Trainwreck is much higher gain and requires extra care in wiring. I'll find out how quiet it is this weekend. 8)

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Post subject: Re: (First) 5E3 Tweed Deluxe Build
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:31 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
Thanks.

See how the wires are separated? Power wires are kept as far away from signal wires as possible. Where power and signal wires have to cross, they should do so as close to 90 degrees as possible. Try not to run power and signal side by side. You can't tell from these photos, but in the 5F6A, the heater wires are well below the signal wires at the tube sockets and tucked into the corner of the chassis fold. In the Trainwreck, the signal wires run along the underside of the chassis and the heater wires float above the signal wires. That was all done as I wired the amps. Sometimes if you have to move a wire it means unsoldering and resoldering the wire, maybe using a shorter or longer wire to get where you need to go.

I tried shielding tape on the back panel of the 5F6A. It made no real difference. If you do, you have to make sure the back panel is in physical contact with the chassis. I left a gap between the back panel and chassis of the 5F6A to allow heat to escape. It is quite noticable. The Trainwreck is a head, so I will put shielding tape on the cabinet floor where the amp chassis sits.

The 5F6A is very, very quiet. The Trainwreck is much higher gain and requires extra care in wiring. I'll find out how quiet it is this weekend. 8)

Ok, thanks for the heads up about lead dressing. Checked my connections and it looks like they're all good but I'll definitely keep that in mind during future builds. I was experimenting some more and tried a common ground wire across the pots to the ground lug on the input jack and the amp is really quiet now. I'll get some photos up later tonight or tomorrow. My camera isn't working at the moment.


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Post subject: Re: (First) 5E3 Tweed Deluxe Build
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:35 pm
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Excellent! 8)

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Post subject: Re: (First) 5E3 Tweed Deluxe Build
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:42 am
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DrewMeyer wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
Thanks.

See how the wires are separated? Power wires are kept as far away from signal wires as possible. Where power and signal wires have to cross, they should do so as close to 90 degrees as possible. Try not to run power and signal side by side. You can't tell from these photos, but in the 5F6A, the heater wires are well below the signal wires at the tube sockets and tucked into the corner of the chassis fold. In the Trainwreck, the signal wires run along the underside of the chassis and the heater wires float above the signal wires. That was all done as I wired the amps. Sometimes if you have to move a wire it means unsoldering and resoldering the wire, maybe using a shorter or longer wire to get where you need to go.

I tried shielding tape on the back panel of the 5F6A. It made no real difference. If you do, you have to make sure the back panel is in physical contact with the chassis. I left a gap between the back panel and chassis of the 5F6A to allow heat to escape. It is quite noticable. The Trainwreck is a head, so I will put shielding tape on the cabinet floor where the amp chassis sits.

The 5F6A is very, very quiet. The Trainwreck is much higher gain and requires extra care in wiring. I'll find out how quiet it is this weekend. 8)

Ok, thanks for the heads up about lead dressing. Checked my connections and it looks like they're all good but I'll definitely keep that in mind during future builds. I was experimenting some more and tried a common ground wire across the pots to the ground lug on the input jack and the amp is really quiet now. I'll get some photos up later tonight or tomorrow. My camera isn't working at the moment.


A ground works really well. I also don't like too many ground connections. It just leaves you open to too many problems later on. I use the same thing on my 5e3. Good job.

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Post subject: Re: (First) 5E3 Tweed Deluxe Build
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:58 pm
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Thanks guys, I was glad I found a solution to my own problem without any help. One final question and the amp will be done. What size wire should i use for the speaker? I know Tube Depot gives 18 ga but I've seen some people who recommend 16. Will 18 work fine?


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