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Post subject: New amplifier quality control ???
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:14 am
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Hi, this is my first post on this forum and I'm only sorry it's a negative one! I've been a Fender user for upwards of 20 years, I'm a professional player and teacher and until now I've had nothing but good things to say about Fender. I own a number of hard working Fender amps, most I've had over 25 years and they are fabulous!

So about a year ago I thought I'd treat myself to a new amp and, after doing a fair amount of research decided on a Blonde SuperSonic 22, great sound, portable, just what I needed.

I bought it from a local Fender main dealer, who, incidentally, has been absolutely fantastic throughout all this, because I firmly believe that if we lose these guys to the convenience and pricing of the internet giants, it'll be a sad day for all musicians everywhere.

Got a good deal from the retailer, but still paid close to a grand. I'm not worried by that, after all I'd only be giving it to the Tax man if I hadn't spent it on the business!

The first issue was the reverb circuit, which was more or less unusable due to a massive feedback loop in the circuit. So, it had it's first trip back to Fender to get this sorted! A few months later, another trip back to Fender, this time to fix an incredibly loud hum which made the amp unplayable. The service report came back saying ".... repaired, open circuit reverb pan ".

So, got it back, did one gig with it and the channel switching stopped functioning, neither from the footswitch nor manually from the front panel.

When I took it back to the dealer, (by this time the poor guy is curling with embarrassment and I'm at pains to reassure him that this is not his fault!) he got straight on to Fender and reported yet another problem. This time Fender said that they were going to give me a new amp, straight swap, no questions, keep the customer satisfied! Yippeee!!!

I had to wait a couple of weeks as the blonde 22's were out of stock, apparently. So when the new one arrived I went straight over and picked it up, took it home, fired it up and ...... guess what! incredibly loud hum rendering the amp unplayable! Straight out of the box!

Took it back to the retailer the following morning, and basically told him that there was absolutely no way I was ever going to be able to trust this pice of equipment in a gig situation ever again, and he agreed. So he reported this back to Fender who asked " ...... is there another amp which the customer would accept in replacement? "

So I thought what about a 65 Deluxe Reverb Reissue? I'd heard great thing about them and read some very good reviews, and in fact, when I'd bought my original SS 22, it had been a toss up between that and a DRRI anyway, so I thought, OK I'll go for one of those.

Fair play to Fender they sent the new amp within a week and on Wednesday of last week, I picked it up from the dealer and went home a happy guitarist!

So Wednesday night, I have a student in my teaching studio and I'm extolling the virtues of the new amp and saying all manner of good things about it's, quite frankly, gorgeous sound etc. and I get all enthusiastic and turn it up a little ( well, up to 7 on the Vibrato channel) and it starts making horrible farting noises every time I hit an E in any octave and it doesn't much like B's or C sharps either. Now I don't know about you but I'd expect this amp not to do this at what, admittedly, is a big volume in a domestic setting but would be fairly routine on a gig!

I discovered, through trial and error that, if I turned the Vibrato controls to zero, the distortion ceased, leading me to assume that the fault lay somewhere in the Vibrato circuit. Which is a shame really, because it's a lush sound that I would use a lot on gigs, but of course it's now not operational at gig levels!

So the next day, I report this to the dealer, who by now must be puling his hair out!, but I agree to just monitor the problem for a few days in the hope that it will settle down after some (gentle) use.

Right, yesterday. I do a bit of teaching during the day (Saturday) nothing strenuous, couple of acoustic lessons and then an hour of electric work, low volume stuff. Finish my lesson, put the amp on standby for a minute or two then switch off! Not having a gig last night, ( a bit of a rarity on a Saturday night actually), I sit in the studio with a mate who happens to be the bass player in the band, and talk about the DRRI and to illustrate the point about it's glowing tone, switch it on whereupon the input fuse blows.

So after much cursing, I go online and Google "DRRI blowing fuses" and, guess what! loads of reports from disgruntled users! Of which I'm now one!

And loads of possible suggestions about how to deal with these problems ranging from replacing Rectifier Valves (Tubes) to Output valves.

They're all missing the point, which is that these problems should not be occurring in the first place. If I pay a thousand pounds for a piece of equipment i want to know that it's going to work for longer than a couple of days, or a couple of weeks, or months even.

I have a Custom Vibrolux Reverb which I bought new 17 years ago, and apart from regular re-valving it's been serviced twice! It's never let me down! It sounds fabulous! It's what I expect from Fender!

I seriously suggest that Fender address the issues which appear to be plaguing these amps, otherwise an army of loyal customers are going to vote with their feet (and their wallets) and move to more reliable products.

There! rant over!

Love the guitars though, seems there is a lot more care taken over quality control where instruments are concerned.


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Post subject: Re: New amplifier quality control ???
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:16 am
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Hi John Rodge,

Sorry about your amp issues, that really sucks. Keep in mind that shipping these days is major torture on amps, especially UPS, they are horribly rough on most any package. Sometimes tubes will suffer most during shipping, and it's a simple matter of replacing a beaten-up tube and then you're good to go. My point in saying this is that sometimes it isn't the fault of Fender, and it shouldn't be a forgone conclusion that QC is lacking in every case. It is easy to lump all problems into one singular cause, but not always true. Whatever the reason for failures, I agree that most retailers and Fender do have a great warranty and try to please.

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Post subject: Re: New amplifier quality control ???
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:53 am
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Sorry to hear about your string of Fender Amp problems. Sounds like Fender really worked with ya, but the product just didn't stand up. Sad situation, especially since Fender Amps reputation for reliability was top notch back in the day.

These type of problems have been occuring for few years now, and it appears they have not been able to rectify them. I am not sure that this can be laid at the shippers feet though, as if it were that simple, Fender would have changed shippers by now. And besides they ship guitars too and you don't see these type of problems.

Sad that Fender is having these issues...This has got to be worrisome to them.

T2

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Post subject: Re: New amplifier quality control ???
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:37 am
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I feel your pain! Been through most of the same issues with my Super Sonic 22 purchased new this past June. I think it's fixed now! :| A good friend purchased a new DRRI around the same time and had a reverb 'howl' issue as well.

I give Fender an A+ for their authorized warranty repair network which has always been fast and efficient BUT I sure wish I could say I know nothing about Fender's warranty repair network. An amp for over $1000 should not have such seemingly frequent faults.

Fender has slipped! :x

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Post subject: Re: New amplifier quality control ???
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:18 am
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There are quite a few threads here about problems with the SuperSonics and a few on DRRI problems. I have three Fender amps (BDRI, C600, and Frontman 25R) which I have modified for tone and reliability. Now I build my own amps. I doubt I will ever buy a commercially made amp again .... even if my wife would let me. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: New amplifier quality control ???
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:57 am
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I take the point about shipping and all the problems associated with that, and I'm prepared to admit that my opinion is now coloured by my experiences with these amps. But if Fender are aware of the fact that their shipping contractors are giving the products a hard time they should change their contractors, or at least let them know they're not happy with them.

Fender have to realize that, ultimately, their duty is to their customers because surely, the potential damage to their company reputation will be enormous and damaging.

Fender have been very fair in their dealings with me in terms of service, and whilst I appreciate all that, it doesn't alter the fact that, at the moment, I have an amp which I'm not 100% confident to gig with.

I'd love to say that I could now send this amplifier back to Fender and have it returned with all its faults rectified successfully, but I'd be lying if I said that I'm sure this is going to happen. If it does, then I'll be truly delighted because I honestly believe the DRRI has a tone to die for! and I'd gig it to the ends of the earth if I felt I could trust it the way I trust my Vibrolux or my Concert Reverb or my Cornford Hurricane.


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Post subject: Re: New amplifier quality control ???
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:01 am
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The current crop of QC/QA problems with FMIC's amps far eclipses any issues -- real or perceived -- that were extant during the silverface era. Say what you will about the CBS amps from the 70's but at least they played every time they were plugged in and switched on. Truth told, I don't see Fender in any kind of ball-crushing rush to cure these endemic amp problems. They're poorly designed, poorly engineered and poorly built.

Period.

:(

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: New amplifier quality control ???
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:57 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
The current crop of QC/QA problems with FMIC's amps far eclipses any issues -- real or perceived -- that were extant during the silverface era. Say what you will about the CBS amps from the 70's but at least they played every time they were plugged in and switched on. Truth told, I don't see Fender in any kind of ball-crushing rush to cure these endemic amp problems. They're poorly designed, poorly engineered and poorly built.

Period.

:(

Arjay


We only need to read your signature quote, Arjay! :shock:

One has to wonder what the issue is at Fender. What has changed in the last couple of years that has led to this? They're still being built in the same factory. In the case of the DRRI, the design hasn't changed in over a decade. So what's going on? Did the factory retool and is now using a different process? Are they outsourcing certain elements of the production process to outside contractors? Is it just cost-cutting in the components and manufacturing process to try and penny-pinch due to FMIC's crushing debt load? Is it because Bain owns 41% of the company and is trying to squeeze every dime out of FMIC before they can dump it with an overpriced IPO?

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Post subject: Re: New amplifier quality control ???
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:59 am
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Well, at least Fender has provided a site where those of less experience can test out their amp building skills on weber kit fender clones with knowledgeable members doing their best to guide the process. :lol:

As one member (or more) seems to have figured out, the only way to get a classic quality Fender amp these days is to build one yourself. The member who said this, fortunately, has ample skills to the task. Perhaps we can thank FMIC, especially the shareholders and other non-skilled participants (lawyers and accountants), for initiating a new found interest in electronics and people helping each other. Always looking for the bright side of things. :D

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Last edited by modwiz on Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: New amplifier quality control ???
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:39 am
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modwiz wrote:
Well, at least Fender has provided a site where those of less experience can test out their amp building skills on weber kit fender clones with knowledgeable members doing their best to guide the process. :lol:

As one member (or more) seems to have figured out, the only way to get a classic quality Fender amp these days is to build one yourself. The member who said this, fortunately has ample skills to the task. Perhaps we can thank FMIC, especially the shareholders and other non-skilled participants (lawyers and accountants), for initiating a new found interest in electronics and people helping each other. Always looking for the bright side of things. :D


+1000 :D

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Post subject: Re: New amplifier quality control ???
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:32 pm
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modwiz wrote:
As one member (or more) seems to have figured out, the only way to get a classic quality Fender amp these days is to build one yourself.


EXCUSE ME?

Image

While there's absolutely nothing wrong with a skillfully built Fender clone, there are still ample supplies of REAL Fender amps available. And many of the guys on this forum see to it that they'll be around well into the next century.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: New amplifier quality control ???
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:20 pm
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My bad, Arjay. I should have been more concise in my language and been clear that I was alluding to the recent crop (crap?) of the better/more costly amps from FMIC. I have a Mustang l, SCX2 and a Bronco that I am more than happy with. Each of these amps could get me laughed out of a serious Fender owners meeting. :lol: :shock:

I was quite serious about the effect of waning QC being healthy for people getting more geeky with their equipment. When building a quality tube amp is not quite an arcane art, because interest and need has driven more to learn how to follow schematics with the genius left behind by Leo, then we all benefit in more than a few ways. Supply and demand factor in here.

I will admit that the whole "investment" consciousness of these amps is a turn off for me. It is this same fascination with money that is behind QC issues. I do not wish to really open that can of worms. The programming is too deep.

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Last edited by modwiz on Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: New amplifier quality control ???
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:32 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
modwiz wrote:
As one member (or more) seems to have figured out, the only way to get a classic quality Fender amp these days is to build one yourself.


EXCUSE ME?

Image

While there's absolutely nothing wrong with a skillfully built Fender clone, there are still ample supplies of REAL Fender amps available. And many of the guys on this forum see to it that they'll be around well into the next century.

Arjay



I agree that there is a plentiful supply but many of the prime examples are being bought up by those who need them most. The touring companies and big name musicians. How many Bassman amps does Brian Setzer have now? More than he publicly admits to, I'm sure. Then there are others who's rigs keep changing every year. At least two of each model (that they use) on the road and more at home as spares. Those won't last forever. Just saying, there is a "finite" supply... and the prices go up daily.

Art


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Post subject: Re: New amplifier quality control ???
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:07 pm
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Gee Art, I'm a "nobody" (relatively speaking) and I manage to find them. As do dozens of others here on the forum. All it takes is patience, familiarity with the breed, and -- when the moment of truth arrives -- the courage to reach for the Visa card.

8)

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: New amplifier quality control ???
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:17 pm
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A few posts back, it was suggested that some of these failures are because of the carriers. I don't buy that for a minute (at least for any significant portion of the faults). It's evident this reverb issue isn't due to the carrier IMO.

As for the vintage Fenders, I'm not questioning their superior reliability, but I want a new amp...one that is reliable from day one. That shouldn't be too much to ask for....should it?

I don't want a classic car for my transportation....they're great; had several back when they were new. I want a new car with high reliability.

Manufacturers should be providing the customer what he wants.

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