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Post subject: Tweaked SuperSonic 22 is SWEET-now!
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:55 pm
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Hello, :D
Just tested my supersonic 22 after changing the reverb cables out with good stuff, treating all connections in and out with deoxitd, I tightened up EACH spade lug inside, and i took out the TL072's and did a direct and massive increase in tone and less noise they were designed to replace tl072 TLE2072's...so i tested it last night without being bolted in so no shielding per say from the foil to chassis connection...didn't exist and

finally i used new mullards in front with one 7025 in one position in the pre (i have to go look later) and i used Tung Sol (6201 grade) 12AT7's for the reverb driver tube and the PI all purchased form the tubestore (i highly recommend them)...it sounds freaking GREAT :shock:

no buzz, no noise nothing just sweetness.. (genelex 6V6 RI's)...sweet i can not say HOW much the tweaks improved it...SO :shock: :shock:

with that said..i am going to drop in OPA2134's in the TLE2072's places (loop chips) because i know the OPA's just rock...i know the TLE's will drop in...now i will determine if the OPA's will drop in without issues...and if so...i bolt it back together but first i will take noise measurements (just the loop noise) i have them for the tl072's when installed...now i'll take the rest and post the results - later (BTW the same stuff can /should be done to all of the SS amps....i couldn't believe how much better it sounded...less harsh, more deluxe reverb with a modern vibe... (careful there are two MIN fuses stashed on the power supply to protect +- 15...i gotta get a few for one amp...for this one i took two exposed fuse holders with fuse types i can get on the road ANYWHERE and took out the minis..installed the new holders on the chassis inside...

last thing i am going to do it BOLT all grounds i can to one bolt..not screw..and i scratch the chassis on the inside, then clean the spot with deoxit d once the hole is drilled (both sides are prepped that way...then deoxit d the connectors i bolt to..and finally i will deoxit d the chassis face and the foil faces where the two meet.... (i live in a high RF/EMI noise environment and that thing is QUIET...no reverb his, nor harshness...and the clean channel is sweet....the two gaain knobs can be made to swing from amped up, crunch or ...Satch (with a 4x12 cab)

the 22 is a fine amp once tweaked...finally i will do the speaker swap...TBD -any suggestion...blues and country (i have a jazz amp already) hemp cones, tubby's...old jensen??? :?: :mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: Tweaked SuperSonic 22 is SWEET-now!
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:59 pm
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rollo wrote:
finally i will do the speaker swap...TBD -any suggestion...blues and country (i have a jazz amp already) hemp cones, tubby's...old jensen??? :?: :mrgreen:


You could do a lot worse than a Chicago-made Jensen C12N. Weber's 12F150 or the hempcone Tone Tubby would also be an outstanding choice.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Tweaked SuperSonic 22 is SWEET-now!
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:49 pm
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rollo wrote:
with that said..i am going to drop in OPA2134's in the TLE2072's places (loop chips) because i know the OPA's just rock...i know the TLE's will drop in...now i will determine if the OPA's will drop in without issues...and if so...i bolt it back together but first i will take noise measurements (just the loop noise) i have them for the tl072's when installed...now i'll take the rest and post the results - later (BTW the same stuff can /should be done to all of the SS amps


Rollo, thanks for the info and advice. FWIW the SS Twin uses 12AX7 valves for it's Effects Send and Return loops, and REVERB path. The only place it uses OP-AMPS is 1xTL072 and 2xTL074 in the BURN Channel for the ACTIVE Frequency Notch control, and 1x4560 in Pre-Amp Out. But when the time comes I will try your recomendations for those IC's. Looking forward to your speaker review.

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Post subject: Re: Tweaked SuperSonic 22 is SWEET-now!
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:05 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
rollo wrote:
finally i will do the speaker swap...TBD -any suggestion...blues and country (i have a jazz amp already) hemp cones, tubby's...old jensen??? :?: :mrgreen:


You could do a lot worse than a Chicago-made Jensen C12N. Weber's 12F150 or the hempcone Tone Tubby would also be an outstanding choice.

Arjay


Hi Arjay :mrgreen:
had a 12F150 in my Mission amps 5E3 (NICE kit and Bruce is good folk) loved that speaker

http://www.missionamps.com/

i made a one hour loop on protools....this was when i was at Microsoft on the mainland so we came over here every weekend.... the loop had all sorts of guitar sounds on it - so i played it through the 5E3 (poor neighbors on the mainland) from 6pm Friday night until around 3pm on Monday... had the amp at about half power.

when i took off the loop, got in the mood and played it...the Weber was Outstanding...

you know this well....new speakers need to be broken in, loosened up etc..and many folks just don't know that and start yanking speakers right away. (RCA rented engineering space above JBL in Van Nuys Ca. so i hung out with their guys at lunch and when ....killer big named bands came in and tested arrays and amps /speaker combinations on the "green"...man...their aniconic chamber was awesome..... learned a lot.

yeah i'll look into a weber for that - my buddy on another island has a speaker cache so i'll buzz over there after i get the opa's dropped in and bolt the thing back together

and try different speakers and let everyone know ..and make some recordings and i'll whip up some MP3's we have all the normal guitars to try it with..and 3 of mine are "special" hand picked from many and will be a great paint bush to try on the amp canvas

truthfully i love the SS22 and now it is much better than it was...(fender has to pay the bills... i get it)....but sure is fun tweaking eh?

BTW this same friend makes the best blues junior mods i have heard..and i have had the bill mods (used some) but ole norm takes those things and rocks them...so he had to come up with speakers (perfectionist) a 3D machinist..no cad/cam used..all old school and he applies that philo. to his amps...so he has just about every great speaker on he planet....if i could fly he's 8 miles away...to drive 68 miles each way...so i'll wait until the opa's get here...

Thanks Arjay...how's things?...i'm digging Bill 'wreck thread...should be interesting

LET ME TOSS THIS TO YOU....i have a vibro king i love + the 2x12 cab (leaving that alone) but MAY play with the VK speakers this summer..

3x10"......any good ideas of tonal kill i can install for speakers, or combinations you may have heard ...perhaps on folks super reverbs etc...if i was in LA i could do mucho testing but i am not....waaah...my ears are wide open :mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: Tweaked SuperSonic 22 is SWEET-now!
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:59 pm
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AaronK wrote:
rollo wrote:
with that said..i am going to drop in OPA2134's in the TLE2072's places (loop chips) because i know the OPA's just rock...i know the TLE's will drop in...now i will determine if the OPA's will drop in without issues...and if so...i bolt it back together but first i will take noise measurements (just the loop noise) i have them for the tl072's when installed...now i'll take the rest and post the results - later (BTW the same stuff can /should be done to all of the SS amps


Rollo, thanks for the info and advice. FWIW the SS Twin uses 12AX7 valves for it's Effects Send and Return loops, and REVERB path. The only place it uses OP-AMPS is 1xTL072 and 2xTL074 in the BURN Channel for the ACTIVE Frequency Notch control, and 1x4560 in Pre-Amp Out. But when the time comes I will try your recommendations for those IC's. Looking forward to your speaker review.


Hi Aaron,
Thanks, the TLE series covers all tl07x chips in this schematic as does the opa (maybe) ...personally for a tube amp anything higher up on the food chain would be OVERKILL...and i have some higher up the food chain opa's sitting here and LME's sitting here...and i JUST won't be suckered into using them in these circuits..but the 2134 and it's relatives...yeah i will try (hope it they just drop in)...my pard in Austin uses the opa2134's for tons of really nice sounding gear...

hey so i just looked at the ss twin...of course yank those 7x series chips...and for the 4560...ne553x series is a great update...and if you want to get REALLY ugly on it drop a
these ungodly things in place of the 4560....or 553x series.

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lme49710.pdf (not tested on this circuit) this series covers all the single, dual and quad...not FET input like the TLE's and they can DRIVE a line.

now if you are a person who just doesn't care if you really get into a tweak...the 4560 is doingwhat i call quasi balanced out and SE out it works fine as is...i have the same circuit here in my SS it drives my M-audio stuff fine. BUT i have just done a SMD VCA controlled balanced out that KILLS according to my pard using the THAT corp outsmarts chips (i designed for Rane for some time and symmetrix) and have used the outsmarts chips.

you can get a radio shack 2.50$ copper perf board, a dip outsmarts 16xx.. resistors compositions of your choice (carbon film or metal film) and build a ROBUST balanced out with protection...or wait for a few weeks and PM me and i'll give you a board to try.

but if you follow their recommendations for protection and so forth it'll be fine (also try googling analog secrets your mother never told you AND more analog secrets your mother never told you)
you will find lots of meat.....not hard to build a very nice line driver with it

http://www.thatcorp.com/datashts/THAT_1 ... asheet.pdf

i'm using this analog engine for my lesser design and for my high end version just different implementations, output schemes and control voltage circuits.

http://www.thatcorp.com/datashts/THAT_4 ... asheet.pdf (neat chip!!) :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

if you want a KNOWN to rock schematic of the outsmarts to whip up one let me know

i'll send you a pdf of my tested in the field designs, it's on pro audio gear ....can't say who i did it for but it works fine...when my SMD boards for test get here..i can send you one....but if you don't want to wait - build one mine takes lightning and keeps on ticking

BTW...i am sending him (the pard) my eleven rack processor so he can suck off all the tl07x stuff, and the ne5534's (just cuz) and replacing them with the stuff i just wrote about with many tests before hand and after...and it's just for our edification (gives him a chance to stay up late and drink beer)...true story...i had it opened up when i lived on the mainland, and somehow i forget how i spilled a whole bottle of GOOD beer into it..when playing and farting around with a buddy...twice i have done that...and it just keeps on playing...it was powered up both times...never missed a lick...and i have the track and it never burped....we heard it whisper..."beer is good!" -just remembered 20' foot room and i used my shorter cord and spaced it ...wasted beer :mrgreen:

it will be cool to see/hear the before and after with the chip swaps.. (doing a +/- gain pre for it also to drive their input with.....) :shock:

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Post subject: Re: Tweaked SuperSonic 22 is SWEET-now!
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:49 pm
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Thanks Rollo, alot of good suggestions, but I don't use the Buffered Pre-Amp Output on my amp, so I more than likely won't upgrade those IC's. However I will try your recomendations for those TL07x replacements when i find the time to get stuck into the amp.

many thanks.

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Post subject: Re: Tweaked SuperSonic 22 is SWEET-now!
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:16 am
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rollo wrote:
LET ME TOSS THIS TO YOU....i have a vibro king i love + the 2x12 cab (leaving that alone) but MAY play with the VK speakers this summer..

3x10"......any good ideas of tonal kill i can install for speakers, or combinations you may have heard ...perhaps on folks super reverbs etc...if i was in LA i could do mucho testing but i am not....waaah...my ears are wide open :mrgreen:


Like many folks, I've never been thrilled with the choice of OEM speakers in most modern Fender amps -- the VK is no exception. Since you're dealing with a 60-watt flamethrower, I'd consider a trio of vintage Jensen's......a pair of C10N's and a single P10N. The ceramic/alnico mix should create a tasty sonic symbiosis and with a total power-handling capability of 120 watts, they'll provide a sufficient margin of safety to cover any conceivable contingency. Alternatively, a similar blend of modern Webers would likely yield similar results.

HTH

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Tweaked SuperSonic 22 is SWEET-now!
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:49 am
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Rollo - are you really saying that you have cured the reverb hum, reverb feedback, footswitch popping AND the general hiss with your fixes...?

I am most interested in the general hiss and if it is common to the whole Supersonic range (SSTwin, SS60, SS100 and SS22)...?

I think my SS22 has to go back - but I would love to find a way to keep it - or get one of the others in the range.... but what I read tells me that they ALL have the reverb issues (surely a major design flaw plus QC SNAFU) and the hiss at idle...


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Post subject: Re: Tweaked SuperSonic 22 is SWEET-now!
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:06 pm
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...also interested in whether you've cured the ambient hissing...Nothing plugged in, all knobs on 0.........hissssssssssssssssssssss !!!


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Post subject: Re: Tweaked SuperSonic 22 is SWEET-now!
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:46 am
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Yeah come on Rollo - tell usssssssssss!

(I found a local store with 2 SS22s in yesterday and went to try out the ambient hiss compared to mine. Neither had bad reverb hum - that was good. The cream one had slightly less hiss than mine but the fat switch on the amp popped. The black one had noticeably less hiss I thought. Oh and the light was broken on the cream one. This is in a capital city's biggest music shop by the way. I still want to know if the hiss and reverb issues are common across the whole SS range...?)


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Post subject: Re: Tweaked SuperSonic 22 is SWEET-now!
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:08 pm
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I have found the cure to my reverb feedback issue i.e. when the reverb knob was turned passed 5 it would slowly build up with a high pitch feedback even when all other knobs were right down. I have been paying close attention to everyone elses issues and attempts at fixing it, and after doing some comparisons with tubes/cables and various unplugged reverb combinations, adding foam padding, someone suggested in a forum that their reverb might be microphonic. Whether a reverb tank can be microphonic in itself I cannot tell you, but it made me want to take a closer look at the physical reverb circuit to rule out any possible cause.

Looking on Accutronics website they suggest that the orientation that Fender has chosen for the SS and other combo Amp reverb tanks is the least desirable, as this causes gravity to act on the reverb spring and push the ferite beads (there are 4 in mine - one on each end of each spring) in the transformer to sit real close to one side and not dead centre as intended. Now does this make it more sensitive, possibly as smaller movements will be detected easier but bigger ones will be constrained physicaly. Accutronics also state that they custom set the position of these beads based on the customers mounting requirements.

So I took a close look at mine and after a long hard check and fiddle I found that one bead was sitting way too close to the reverb transformer plate, and with gravity added it was REALLY close. So I decided to adjust it and found that you can't bend or solder it into its correct position as that would be too risky. I eventualy found that with some small pliers I could rotate the copper stud that holds this bead and spring until it was orientated such that gravity pulls this bead more central. I then put a dab of superglue on the copper stud to hold it from rotating back.

I am pleased to say that I tested it last night at full reverb volume and while before it would feedback instantly and consistantly at even a 5 setting, I could not get it to feedback at all even at 10.

Other improvements I made while I was trying to fix my reverb was:
- added good foam padding under reverb unit to dampen any vibrational shock in the CAB (this did not cure my feedback, but will help dampen unwanted CAB vibrations).
- the 4 floating springs that stabilize the reverb carridge in it's housing would creek and snap at their fastening rings when moved, giving the reverb a sharp unpleasant jolt of sound, so I put a dab of superglue on each of the fastening rings either side of each spring to ensure only the springs move between their fastenings, making the dampening much smoother.

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