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Post subject: Princeton 650 noise
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:52 am
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I've been through this amp and can find no fault; are they really noisy by design?

With nothing plugged in and volume controls at minimum all quiet as you'd expect because the is muting is operational. Plug a lead in and there is a pronounced hiss.

Looking at the circuit diagram it does seem an unnecessarily complicated design. Anyone else know these little amps?


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Post subject: Re: Princeton 650 noise
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:48 am
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Hi Angela_K,

Are all presets/settings the same as far as the hiss?

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Post subject: Re: Princeton 650 noise
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:44 pm
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Angela_K,
Shimmilou has a very good question.

I've had my Princeton 650 for a number of years now and don't use it a lot anymore (more into tube amps currently). Most of the time I would use the first 4 timbres and they are all quiet regardles of channel and effect. I do seem to recall that 'squawk' (and perhaps 'scoop') had more noise than the first four, and of course on channel 2, the higher the 'drive', the noiser it gets which is normal.

Can't help you on 'where to look' electronically, but for sake of reference, I never considered mine noisey. A very nice ss amp IMO.

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Post subject: Re: Princeton 650 noise
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:28 pm
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Never heard of this model. When was this made?

Art


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Post subject: Re: Princeton 650 noise
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:36 pm
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Art1 wrote:
Never heard of this model. When was this made?

Art

Don't know when it was released, but it was discontinued approximately 7 or 8 years ago (give or take).

Very small and compact about the size of a Blues Jr. but only around 28# and @ 65 watts, it can get LOUD!

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Post subject: Re: Princeton 650 noise
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:42 pm
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OK. I had (still have actually) a Performer 650 (65Watt) SS that is still in one piece from 94. Awesome clean channel and reverb. Don't like the drive channel though. I think they got replaced by the Roc-Pro series.

Art

sorry to get off topic.


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Post subject: Re: Princeton 650 noise
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:34 am
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Many thanks for the replies. The owner of this amp bought it second-hand so no idea of age; it is a small combo at the budget end of the market - made in Indonesia.

The noise level varies with various settings of the DSP but remains constant regardless of other control settings. I did my usual trick of freezer spray on various components which usually shows up noisy components but that didn't work. I wonder why Fender designed in a complex muting circuit when most other manufacturers just rely on the input jacks to ground out the signal line when there is nothing plugged in. Careful study of the circuit diagram and signal path convinces me the way the amp is designed makes it noisy.

I mainly repair electronic test equipment/scientific kit but also repair some audio gear; I'm an approved Marshall repairer.

Last night a guy from the recording studio next door for whom I do I lot of work came in and said he'd seen one of those amps and that too was noisy.


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Post subject: Re: Princeton 650 noise
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:06 pm
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Angela_K wrote:
Many thanks for the replies. The owner of this amp bought it second-hand so no idea of age; it is a small combo at the budget end of the market - made in Indonesia.

The noise level varies with various settings of the DSP but remains constant regardless of other control settings. I did my usual trick of freezer spray on various components which usually shows up noisy components but that didn't work. I wonder why Fender designed in a complex muting circuit when most other manufacturers just rely on the input jacks to ground out the signal line when there is nothing plugged in. Careful study of the circuit diagram and signal path convinces me the way the amp is designed makes it noisy.

I mainly repair electronic test equipment/scientific kit but also repair some audio gear; I'm an approved Marshall repairer.

Last night a guy from the recording studio next door for whom I do I lot of work came in and said he'd seen one of those amps and that too was noisy.

Conflicting info. from mine. These amps had a street price (MF, Music123, AMS, etc.) of $525 when they were on the market, then reduced for quick sale @ $300 when initially discontinued. Considering Fender's and other ss amps currently or recently in production, I wouldn't consider that the budget end; perhaps others would. Plus, mine is clearly marked "Made in Mexico".

Also, mine certainly isn't excessively noisey except in the two timbres mentioned. The effects don't cause any additional noise in mine either. I suspect something is wrong with the one you have, or could we be speaking of different amps?

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Post subject: Re: Princeton 650 noise
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:39 pm
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Angela_K wrote:
I've been through this amp and can find no fault; are they really noisy by design?

With nothing plugged in and volume controls at minimum all quiet as you'd expect because the is muting is operational. Plug a lead in and there is a pronounced hiss.

I have a Fender Princeton 65 DSP, an amp older than yours. I have the same problem with it. Nearly silent powered up, until a lead is plugged in. (With guitar or not.)

As soon as a cord goes in the input jack, it has a shhhhhh noise that is quite audible.

I tried lifting ground on power with a 3-to-2 prong adapter, with no effect.

Love to hear any ideas.


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Post subject: Re: Princeton 650 noise
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:02 pm
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Have a G-Dec 3 30.

Just bought the Princeton 650 DSP online because 1) it was a bargain 2) Wanted Trem & Vibrato but too cheap to pay like $200 each for foot pedals.

Princeton 650 can get almost every sound my G Dec 3 30 can. Since the G Dec 3 30 is discontinued and rare, don't like taking it out. The cost of Princeton 650 took care of that worry.

When I first got it, it was quiet. Had it cranked all the way on crunch channel. Fine. Plugged in a cord, without a guitar hooked up. That thing squealed so loud, I think it was responsible for that factory in India that fell down.

It squeals, but when the G Dec 3 30 is emulating other amps, it adds hiss. So, when Fender was creating its DSP and didn't know what they were doing, think this is why the hiss.

Also 65 watts my behind. My 30 at full volume can't compete with the 650 when it's on 2.

I have discovered how to work with the volumes - plus you can't have full throttle on your guitar - to tame the hiss and piss.

I'd put this thing up against any 300 watt bass amp in a volume competition!

It is so loud, at heavy metal concerts, those in the balcony seats will be yelling "turn it down." When you have it on 3.


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Post subject: Re: Princeton 650 noise
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:29 am
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My local Guitar Center has a used Princeton 65 DSP for only $159.00. I'm debating whether or not to get it. The problem is, I already have too many amps and I would have to probably bring them in over there and do a swap for that one. Ah ! So many choices.


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Post subject: Re: Princeton 650 noise
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:07 pm
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Hey guys, all of you that are saying that your amp is quiet when nothing is plugged in realize that the input jacks are shorting jacks that short the hot (tip) connection of the input jack to ground making the amp silent, right? Once you plug a guitar cord in with or without a guitar connected, but especially without a guitar connected, the cable acts as an antenna that will pick up all sorts of noise from the unterminated end plug. The guitar pickups and even the wiring in the guitar can act as antennas and pick up noise, especially in a environment with a computer, light dimmers, fluorescent lights, and other noise sources.

Lifting the ground will have no effect on hiss, only on hum and is a very foolhardy and dangerous practice. Modern amps have three prong plugs for a reason.

DSP is known to generate hiss in many amps and pedals.

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Post subject: Re: Princeton 650 noise
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:54 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
Hey guys, all of you that are saying that your amp is quiet when nothing is plugged in realize that the input jacks are shorting jacks that short the hot (tip) connection of the input jack to ground making the amp silent, right? Once you plug a guitar cord in with or without a guitar connected, but especially without a guitar connected, the cable acts as an antenna that will pick up all sorts of noise from the unterminated end plug. The guitar pickups and even the wiring in the guitar can act as antennas and pick up noise, especially in a environment with a computer, light dimmers, fluorescent lights, and other noise sources.

Lifting the ground will have no effect on hiss, only on hum and is a very foolhardy and dangerous practice. Modern amps have three prong plugs for a reason.

DSP is known to generate hiss in many amps and pedals.


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Art


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