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Post subject: Re: New Amp Build - Trainwreck Express Clone
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:45 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
ROLLO! Dude. Off-topic. Is that a Porsche Carrera 356 engine, in one of your photos? A man after my heart. :D


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BEAUTIFULLY DONE, A GENT WELL KNOWN HERE IN THE PUTRID SOUND HAS A BEETLE WITH A c2 4 CAM ...the miester of 4 cams...has many on the shelf want a 917 motor?

back to topic..just completely disassembled the 18w wreck version A0 MM no choke with C/bias/el84 (swapped pots with the rocket) ..now comes the A5H version with cath bias, LM317HV (or LT equivalent) - google oddwatt) bias and fixed))) (with a CCS type of LSK FET update of the dumble fet. I highly recommend owning at least one version of wreck, tele, and strats love them with a gold in an open back (partial open back)

off topic..the dude sells the CS RI geetars to die for on our little island, also is hip with the man in czechoslovakia that is hammering 550's out of Au he visits him on occasion (music store owner is another computer relic $$$).

this motor going in it (914/912 and beetle/ghia/bus guys pay attention

http://www.polomotor.com/#!polo-motor-kit/c1k7w (i'd use TMW/Borala throttle bodies-motec ECU

nutt'n wrong with a 4 banger 930 motor :shock: when i built the award winning 914-6 i wish i would have known about the polo (built a 2.6 FOUR with 454 pistons/pauter and mojo) I'm thinking a great island car would be a ghia with a polo perhaps supercharged so after a 73 RS for me, i make the wife the ghia vert (i run a 93 rs america, carrera cup suspension, half cage, no whiner's seat, no air/ps/pb, nutt'n but metal, brakes and motor. OMP seat TRW 5 points, geared for road america motec M84 riding in parallel with 93 ECU.

http://www.polomotor.com/#!gallery/c161y - he has it right in the right hand vid :wink:

BTW this pic's air cleaners above are crap been there -he should have them machined from Au or steel, plated in copper and tri chromed :mrgreen:

back to the Java -you will love it :D (i have not been back here for awhile while i was moving but i have my supersonic 22 apart tweaking, and my DRRI is THERE now, both wrecks are apart (ONE FYI crapped out because of the propensity of folk to put the 5w resistors vertically above the output tubes...bad mojo) i was jamming away then nada...sinusoidal movement caused the connection (wrapped and soldered) to break between the pairs of 84's (this is a rocket) and thurs no sound...if you insist on building with them vertical build a buss from romex stipped copper - works great for that end of the resistor array)..

off topic...a while back i read here some fellas like aero planes -if EVER up in the putrid sound area you MUST go to the air measusm at boeing field, and schedule a day 1/2 for boeing in everett to tour production of the behemoths, and then spend the rest of the day in two warbird hangers and such...many neat things there Paul Allen owns one, the other is owned by a consortium. one day i stepped out of our little store on the Ebey's landing and a 'cat, tigershark, a b-25, four mustangs, two AT6's and a zero flew the valley towards port townsend at 500'+ a tad....AWESOME (arlington fly in is second to oskosh you might plan a vacation around those dates.

BTW the java frontend, minor tweaks and a pair/quad el84's NICE option also - i believe we should have all versions and derivatives in every garage in america....

i just purchased and am having crated a non fying F-104G like my daddy knew/flew. it was just painted as a luftwaffe G...going on a pedestal in my yard...

BTW go to a regional aeronautical on line i live at the beginning of the low level part ot MOA chinook A...was born on a AFB, had my indoctrination to B47's and B-52's by General Le May in westover AFB just prior to the missile crisis (9yer old), and flew 40+ mission as co and as command pilot in G models..arc light, linebacker I-II and acquired many neato Jan tubes too

rollo likes planes

big war here over the Ef18G's i live (they use me for a set up base to final landing to the north) next to a aircraft carrier simulator and it has an on site sub and EW site too)...people that knew there was noise here in paradise are filing lawsuits...

however they (that would be the NAVY) are still doing bounces and more power to them- ever sit in the cockpit of an F18?

damn amazing anyone could fly one in battle or under duress...

and the malaysian 777- the answer is quite simple...Dr. No has it or fill it with explosives give it a paint job and fly somewhere...lovely world we live it these days...that is why i have quit the industry and going back to picking and grinning...done and many of my ancient butted friends are quitting, opting out going to live a little

EVERYONE- build a wreck...damn they sound good

BTW for the closest wreck parts and vibe you buy from JR jrguitars - he inherited the man's trust to do them right..my express is coming from him - let you know how it goes

wait until you read and LOOK at the pics of the supersonic (highy suggest getting one) DRERI power section, and a mutli use front end) but i have an incredible lab and took tons o measurments for each change i made...neat stuff. main guts of it are in texas where my pard is milling me a board using THAT coporation Outsmarts and That cor ingenuis loop so i get a capacitorless loop..nd some cap and resistor changes

once all done i'll post

the amp as does the DRRi with MINOR i mean MINOR changes can do wonders to the sound of these amps- played fenders since 65...iUtil my decade of mesa's and rivera's

you can find the wreck here i have to edit blah blah - time to hit toby's for some Guinness - outta here - trainwrecks for all in here are pic of the one i am trashing and a rocket that the resistors disconnected -

http://s1059.photobucket.com/user/rollo964/library/

i'll put up text - blag dog/pug are the dogs of the guy that watches of 7K sq foot barn fukll of vintage race cars some dumb assed millionaire from microsoft - just over the hill from main campus...the guy that has the pug etc - is a screaming geetar picker

back to topic

stop up and check out the planes man ...it's becoming a major draw to the area (late august early september) best weather

'Wreck it!!! (closed back 2 x 12 V30 sound great with them

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Post subject: Re: New Amp Build - Trainwreck Express Clone
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:10 pm
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rollo wrote:
i just purchased and am having crated a non fying F-104G like my daddy knew/flew. it was just painted as a luftwaffe G...going on a pedestal in my yard...


Is the J-79 coming along for the ride?

If so, you can shoehorn that blowtorch into your Porsche and be a real asphalt ace!

:lol:

My team and I did a BDA of an Arc Light sortie some eighty clicks west of Muggia Pass -- it looked like the surface of the moon, only soggy.

:wink:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: New Amp Build - Trainwreck Express Clone
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:32 pm
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Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
rollo wrote:
BEAUTIFULLY DONE, A GENT WELL KNOWN HERE IN THE PUTRID SOUND HAS A BEETLE WITH A c2 4 CAM ...the miester of 4 cams...has many on the shelf want a 917 motor?

back to topic..just completely disassembled the 18w wreck version A0 MM no choke with C/bias/el84 (swapped pots with the rocket) ..now comes the A5H version with cath bias, LM317HV (or LT equivalent) - google oddwatt) bias and fixed))) (with a CCS type of LSK FET update of the dumble fet. I highly recommend owning at least one version of wreck, tele, and strats love them with a gold in an open back (partial open back)

off topic..the dude sells the CS RI geetars to die for on our little island, also is hip with the man in czechoslovakia that is hammering 550's out of Au he visits him on occasion (music store owner is another computer relic $$$).

this motor going in it (914/912 and beetle/ghia/bus guys pay attention

http://www.polomotor.com/#!polo-motor-kit/c1k7w (i'd use TMW/Borala throttle bodies-motec ECU

nutt'n wrong with a 4 banger 930 motor :shock: when i built the award winning 914-6 i wish i would have known about the polo (built a 2.6 FOUR with 454 pistons/pauter and mojo) I'm thinking a great island car would be a ghia with a polo perhaps supercharged so after a 73 RS for me, i make the wife the ghia vert (i run a 93 rs america, carrera cup suspension, half cage, no whiner's seat, no air/ps/pb, nutt'n but metal, brakes and motor. OMP seat TRW 5 points, geared for road america motec M84 riding in parallel with 93 ECU.

http://www.polomotor.com/#!gallery/c161y - he has it right in the right hand vid :wink:

BTW this pic's air cleaners above are crap been there -he should have them machined from Au or steel, plated in copper and tri chromed :mrgreen:

back to the Java -you will love it :D (i have not been back here for awhile while i was moving but i have my supersonic 22 apart tweaking, and my DRRI is THERE now, both wrecks are apart (ONE FYI crapped out because of the propensity of folk to put the 5w resistors vertically above the output tubes...bad mojo) i was jamming away then nada...sinusoidal movement caused the connection (wrapped and soldered) to break between the pairs of 84's (this is a rocket) and thurs no sound...if you insist on building with them vertical build a buss from romex stipped copper - works great for that end of the resistor array)..

off topic...a while back i read here some fellas like aero planes -if EVER up in the putrid sound area you MUST go to the air measusm at boeing field, and schedule a day 1/2 for boeing in everett to tour production of the behemoths, and then spend the rest of the day in two warbird hangers and such...many neat things there Paul Allen owns one, the other is owned by a consortium. one day i stepped out of our little store on the Ebey's landing and a 'cat, tigershark, a b-25, four mustangs, two AT6's and a zero flew the valley towards port townsend at 500'+ a tad....AWESOME (arlington fly in is second to oskosh you might plan a vacation around those dates.

BTW the java frontend, minor tweaks and a pair/quad el84's NICE option also - i believe we should have all versions and derivatives in every garage in america....

i just purchased and am having crated a non fying F-104G like my daddy knew/flew. it was just painted as a luftwaffe G...going on a pedestal in my yard...

BTW go to a regional aeronautical on line i live at the beginning of the low level part ot MOA chinook A...was born on a AFB, had my indoctrination to B47's and B-52's by General Le May in westover AFB just prior to the missile crisis (9yer old), and flew 40+ mission as co and as command pilot in G models..arc light, linebacker I-II and acquired many neato Jan tubes too

rollo likes planes

big war here over the Ef18G's i live (they use me for a set up base to final landing to the north) next to a aircraft carrier simulator and it has an on site sub and EW site too)...people that knew there was noise here in paradise are filing lawsuits...

however they (that would be the NAVY) are still doing bounces and more power to them- ever sit in the cockpit of an F18?

damn amazing anyone could fly one in battle or under duress...

and the malaysian 777- the answer is quite simple...Dr. No has it or fill it with explosives give it a paint job and fly somewhere...lovely world we live it these days...that is why i have quit the industry and going back to picking and grinning...done and many of my ancient butted friends are quitting, opting out going to live a little

EVERYONE- build a wreck...damn they sound good

BTW for the closest wreck parts and vibe you buy from JR jrguitars - he inherited the man's trust to do them right..my express is coming from him - let you know how it goes

wait until you read and LOOK at the pics of the supersonic (highy suggest getting one) DRERI power section, and a mutli use front end) but i have an incredible lab and took tons o measurments for each change i made...neat stuff. main guts of it are in texas where my pard is milling me a board using THAT coporation Outsmarts and That cor ingenuis loop so i get a capacitorless loop..nd some cap and resistor changes

once all done i'll post

the amp as does the DRRi with MINOR i mean MINOR changes can do wonders to the sound of these amps- played fenders since 65...iUtil my decade of mesa's and rivera's

you can find the wreck here i have to edit blah blah - time to hit toby's for some Guinness - outta here - trainwrecks for all in here are pic of the one i am trashing and a rocket that the resistors disconnected -

http://s1059.photobucket.com/user/rollo964/library/

i'll put up text - blag dog/pug are the dogs of the guy that watches of 7K sq foot barn fukll of vintage race cars some dumb assed millionaire from microsoft - just over the hill from main campus...the guy that has the pug etc - is a screaming geetar picker

back to topic

stop up and check out the planes man ...it's becoming a major draw to the area (late august early september) best weather

'Wreck it!!! (closed back 2 x 12 V30 sound great with them


Don't really appreciate the thread hi-jack, especially one that rambles from topic to topic in each sentence. Perhaps you could be so kind as to start your own thread on whatever it is you want to talk about and stay out of mine.

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Post subject: Re: New Amp Build - Trainwreck Express Clone
Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:01 pm
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After living with it for quite some time and just being too busy traveling in my job, I finally decided to tackle the last remaining noise (both a hum and hiss) in the amp. The problem was solved with a combination of two fixes.

1. Removal of the fuse in the high-voltage secondary center tap and

2. Rearrangement of the ground points in the amp.

In checking the grounding points in the amp, I discovered that the fuse used in the high-voltage secondary center tap measured 1.5 ohms. Not much, but apparently enough to result in a poor ground. I removed the fuse and directly grounded the center tap to the chassis. The schematic now looks like this:

Image

I then rearranged the various grounds in a more logical manner. From the upper left and going clockwise they are:

1. High voltage power supply and bias power supply filter cap ground

2. Safety ground

3. High voltage secondary and filament secondary center tap ground

4. Pre-amp ground.

Image

The wiring was also rearranged a little bit to allow for the new ground wire locations. Net result is the hum is almost completely eliminated (have to stand next to the amp to hear it) and the hiss is significantly reduced. Given the amount of gain present in this amp it is almost impossible to eliminate all the hiss (unless one wants to hunt for the world's quietest tube to put in V1). The amp is very stable under all conditions and much much quieter than previously.

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Post subject: Re: New Amp Build - Trainwreck Express Clone
Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 8:55 pm
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Bill...Welcome back! Glad to see you finally solved the hum issue, somehow I knew you would. We have missed you around here...hope all is well with you.

T2

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Post subject: Re: New Amp Build - Trainwreck Express Clone
Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:16 am
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^ What he said ^

Jerry

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Post subject: Re: New Amp Build - Trainwreck Express Clone
Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:19 pm
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Express type amps are designed to handle either EL34 type tubes or 6V6 type tubes with minor rebiasing. I've been running JJ E34L tubes and really like the sound of them. I've modded the third preamp gain stage to have about 3 dB less gain than a real Trainwreck which I find better suits my playing style. I had a set of JJ 6V6S tubes sitting around that I had tried in my Blues Deluxe Reissue (and did not like) and thought I'd try them in my clone.

I plugged them in and found they required just a slight change in bias settings compared to the E34L. However, after several minutes of tweaking the setting, the cathode current of one tube suddenly dropped by about 20mA compared to the other tube. Initial settings were about 24 mA cathode/22 mA plate current at about 410 VDC plate voltage. The cathode current suddenly dropped to about 12 mA in one tube. Nothing to indicate that some major failure had occurred, but I shut the amp done and pulled the tubes. All unloaded voltages were normal so I put the E34Ls back in. They biased up perfectly (42 mA cathode/40 mA plate current at 402 VDC plate voltage) to 64% max plate dissipation and have held there since. So I guess something happened to one of the 6V6S tubes that thankfully didn't hurt the amp. I didn't remember which 6V6S failed so both went in the round file and I'll stick with the E34Ls.

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Post subject: Re: New Amp Build - Trainwreck Express Clone
Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:42 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
I didn't remember which 6V6S failed so both went in the round file and I'll stick with the E34Ls.


:idea:

I keep a silver Sharpie on my bench so I can immediately mark any tube that sounds wonky, becomes microphonic, or tests as "bad". That way the bad bottles end up in the FOD barrel and the good ones are reinstalled or restocked into my tube caddy.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: New Amp Build - Trainwreck Express Clone
Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:50 am
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Good idea.

I don't have anything right now that will accept a JJ 6V6S (my two Champ clones use E-H 6V6GTAs as the JJ tube won't fit with the ALNICO Webers) so no great loss.

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Post subject: Re: New Amp Build - Trainwreck Express Clone
Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:40 pm
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I'm sure there are many who've found a use for the 6V6S but personally I prefer the 6V6GTA for all of my applications. I have a matched pair of S's in my tube caddy but I've never even plugged them in.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: New Amp Build - Trainwreck Express Clone
Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:43 pm
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I have seen this thread, but never invested the 20 pages of reading time until this hot Sunday afternoon. A compelling read. I hope your foot is as recovered as the amp is.
I recently had the pleasure of having a Kendrick Climax come through and I learned a lot from it as well.
The schematic is available online and is your basic Fender clone, like the Express.
It uses different cathode resistor values for early preamp breakup and 220k plate resistors for hi gain, but is pretty much a fender layout.
Now one difference is the value of the resistor at the bottom of the clean tone stack. While Fender uses a 6.8k, this uses a 1.2k. This loads the stack more and makes the controls work more as well. In the process, it lowers the gain coming out of the stack. So loading of the tone stack may kill 2 birds with one stone.

On the photo of your build, the V1 pin 3 cathode looks like a brown, green, black, black. Is that 150 or a 1.5k?

The ground scheme is all important for a quiet amp.
Revamping the grounds around the tranny looks good.
I run the AC grounds to one lug and the power stage grounds to the lug diagonally across.
To reduce hum, I run the ground of the preamp power supply capacitors to the same location as the ac signal grounds for that stage. I make both ground connections at the brass plate. All other DC grounds go to the transformer screw.

Another issue that can contribute to hum is the use of a non-ferrous chassis. An aluminum chassis does not provide magnetic shielding between the power transformer and the preamp circuitry. You might consider thin ferrous shielding under the preamp or PT.

The Climax capacitors were all orange drops and ceramic disc. Filters were Sprague. There are filters and decoupling for each plate.
But the magic part is the output transformer. The gain and sustain produced by the ot was incredible.
The various forums spec the ot as a stancor a3801. By comparison of size, that's not what is in this one. There are no identifying marks on this ot, but it looks original. Production of this amp was a historic clusterf☆♧¿♡ and there is no telling what it actually is. But the Stancor spec is consistent with Ken's earlier quality requirements.
The last one I saw sold for $700. I can testify from the looks on the faces of guitarists who tried it, it's worth every penny.
Its like premium preamp tubes. If there was some other part I could put in there that would do the same thing, I would. But that is Ken's magic part.
The measurements on this ot are 3.75W x 3.125H x 1.5 thick core. The primary measures 58 ohms blu-brn. The thin laminations are not interleaved. They are divided into four stacks. This lowers the inductance of the assembly. So just take your $900 kit and add a $900 OT and you will be living Ken Fischer's dream.

The Climax preamp gain stucture compares to a Super Reverb and has a similar AC signal voltage contour at the input to the phase inverter.
But where a normal Fender power stage will produce 3-5 volts, this puts out 13-15. You've never heard anything like it. Neither had I until now. I never thought you could get gain and sustain, but this Climax has both in ♤♤♤♤♤♤s


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Post subject: Re: New Amp Build - Trainwreck Express Clone
Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:02 am
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Brown/Green/Black/Brown/Brown

1.5Kohm, 1%

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Post subject: Re: New Amp Build - Trainwreck Express Clone
Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:24 am
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I didn't want to believe the photo. It worked too well to be a 150.
Getting an amp quiet is the hardest part and as I read, I felt for you and your torn hair. I've been there.
Since your tone pots are already low values, the only opportunity I see to increase the load on the stack is to go to a lower value volume control.
The Climax also uses a pair of 330k resistors as a voltage divider to drop the gain at V5b. You can insert this type of divider on the grid of most preamp grid circuits to lower the gain to sub-squealing levels. The divider adjusts the signal by ratio of values. In this case, its 1:1. I have had to drop some amps by 4:1 to lower the gain to where I wanted it.


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Post subject: Re: New Amp Build - Trainwreck Express Clone
Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:42 am
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Hum is non-existant. Hiss is average for a high gain amp. Amp on 6 and guitar on 10 is quite loud with creamy overdrive and controllable feedback. Turn the amp up any more and you can't stay in the room. Turn the guitar down to 5 and the amp just starts to break up. Turn guitar to 3 and nice sparkly cleans.

6V6 swap was an experiment that didn't work out. I have no reason to make any other changes to the amp.

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Post subject: Re: New Amp Build - Trainwreck Express Clone
Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:13 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
.. I have no reason to make any other changes to the amp.


That has never stopped you before. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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