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Post subject: ABY Switch Popping Through Amp
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:11 am
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I have a Radial Big Shot ABY switch that I use to switch between two amps. Lately it has developed a loud POP! when switching. It seems to be worse when switching from my BDRI to my 5F6A clone than vice versa. Any thoughts on what could be causing this before I open the box up? Once switched, everything works fine with no extraneous noises. Due to ground loops I have one amp running through the transformer coupler (the 5F6A) with the ground lifted on the Big Shot. Any other setting results in hum.

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Post subject: Re: ABY Switch Popping Through Amp
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:09 am
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I remember this same issue with another poster and an ABY switch. IIRC, the unused output on the switch was not grounded when off, which caused the pops when switching. :?:

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Post subject: Re: ABY Switch Popping Through Amp
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:34 am
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This shows the block diagram of the pedal. What you say makes sense as I have the 5F6A clone connected to the transformer output AND I use the ground lift. Otherwise, I get noise. I'll swap the outputs and confirm if the pop follows the transformer output.

http://www.tonebone.com/re-bigshot-aby-detail.htm

Any suggestions on eliminating the pop while maintaining the noise reduction capabilities of the pedal?

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Post subject: Re: ABY Switch Popping Through Amp
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:17 pm
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I discovered something interesting.

After I have my amps and guitar connected, if I press the A/B selector rapidly several times, the pop gradually diminishes until it is almost gone. Any thoughts on why the switch does this? I know several people here own the same switch. Anybody experience anything similar? Guess I need to open the box up and take a look inside.

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Post subject: Re: ABY Switch Popping Through Amp
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:01 pm
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Have you tried the "phasing" switch instead of, or in addition to using the ground lift?

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Post subject: Re: ABY Switch Popping Through Amp
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:08 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Have you tried the "phasing" switch instead of, or in addition to using the ground lift?


Yes. Makes no difference.

I opened the box up tonight. The PCB is such that it takes a really strong light behind it to see any details of the circuit and I really couldn't make much out. There's not much inside beyond the jacks, two push switches, and the three slide switches. I can see a resistor and a 22 mfd/25 VDC electrolytic cap, but cannot tell what they connect to. I'd have to remove everything from the box and I'm not sure that would even help. The insides are very neatly laid out and soldered. I did spray some deoxit down the push button into each push button switch. Not really sure it made a difference.

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Post subject: Re: ABY Switch Popping Through Amp
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:54 pm
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You know, when you mentioned that the popping diminished when switching rapidly several times, my first thought was a cap, but I didn't think that there was a cap so I didn't mention it. I would definitely check the cap first.

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Post subject: Re: ABY Switch Popping Through Amp
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:33 pm
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The thing is, the pedal is not powered. It is totally passive. I'm thinking the cap and lone resistor must form some kind of LCR network with the transformer to maintain tone. I'm not sure what other purpose it would serve. I guess I could try replacing the cap.

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Post subject: Re: ABY Switch Popping Through Amp
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:58 pm
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Yeah, I wondered how the transformer worked with one side of the primary not connected to anything, as shown for the ground lift in the diagram. :?:

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Post subject: Re: ABY Switch Popping Through Amp
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:11 pm
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I found this in the Q&A section of the ToneBone site.

BigShot™ ABY FAQ

.....
Q: Will the ABY introduce pops into my guitar signal?
A: Yes and no. It depends on your amp and how much gain (overdrive) you are using. The higher the gain, the more sensitive the input and therefore the higher chance of getting clicks and pops when you switch the unit. This of course is the downside to true-bypass switching. If you want to eliminate any pops, you should consider the Switchbone.

.....

The "SwitchBone" has this in the description.

The ultimate AB-Y guitar amp switcher! Switchbone is a creative tool that is designed to allow your guitar to drive and control two amplifiers without introducing noise, distortion, clicks or pops. Most importantly, the Switchbone will retain the natural sound and feel of your instrument.

http://www.tonebone.com/tb-switchbone.htm

Sounds like the popping might just be unavoidable, and a known phenomenon with the BigShot. :?:

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Post subject: Re: ABY Switch Popping Through Amp
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:59 am
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Hi

The Resistor and cap (RC network) is used to phase shift your guitar signal back into phase with your input signal if you are using the Isolated Output Transformer setting which natuaraly phase shifts your signal through the Tranny. As Shimmilou found, the pops may be the result of the mechanical switches interferance on your guitar signal as the result of a high gain setting on your amp. However if nothing on your amp has changed then you would have noticed this before. So if that is it then it is probably because the switches themselves are wearing (and closing slower or with less/bad contact). Try simulating the switch on each amp input with a toggle switch to see if the input impedance on one of your amps hasn't changed to cause a pop.

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Post subject: Re: ABY Switch Popping Through Amp
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:40 am
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Bill,

Sounds like maybe your ABY switch is developing some "dingle-berries" on the contacts. You can try contace cleaner. But, may need to lap the contacts.

Just a wAG.


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Post subject: Re: ABY Switch Popping Through Amp
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:40 am
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Totally aside but, how are you liking the unit as a whole Bill? I would like to purchase an ABY switcher down the road and this one has been on my radar of late.


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Post subject: Re: ABY Switch Popping Through Amp
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:45 am
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Hey, guys.

I'll try to respond to all comments in this one post.

Shimmi - Yes, I saw that note in the FAQ in the Radial website for the pedal. I do expect some popping when switching but the first couple of pops are such that I worry about damaging a speaker. As I mentioned, pushing the switch rapidly several times seems to diminish the level of the pops. I can't justify the cost of a Switchbone.

AaronK - Yes, that is kind of what I figured the resistor and cap were for. None of the amps I use this pedal with are particularly high gain: 5F6A Bassman clone, clean channel of my BDRI, 5f1 configured Champion 600. The pop definitely follows the transformer isolated output of the switch and occurs with every one of my amps, so I think it is safe to say that it is the pedal and not an amp.

BMW - As noted, I did try and get some Deoxit into the switch by spraying it on the switch shaft and letting it drip down the shaft into the switch. Made no real difference. The switch is not that old and considering I am just a bedroom player, it doesn't see real heavy use. I would hope that it would be more robust than this.

Toronado - Other than the loud pop, the switch works great. Ground loop noise is completely eliminated and there is no background noise of any kind. I might consider getting the Radial Bones Twin City ABY.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TwinCityABY/

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Post subject: Re: ABY Switch Popping Through Amp
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:27 am
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Hi Bill

Before you buy another ABY I would suggest spending the time to dismantle the pedal and trying to replace that resistor and capacitor.

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