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Post subject: All who tweak their amps or want to & a nice cable link
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:28 am
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:mrgreen:
1) i highly suggest changing out the reverb cables with high quality rca pairs (shielded) modern amps that is.

2) I use DeoxitD 5% 100% and the same with the Deoxit gold on my connectors (all of them including the power connectors at the plug you put in to the power socket.

3) CAREFULLY re-tension your input jacks and others on the amps if they need it...CAREFUL most are shorting connectors and can open up the signal path and drive you crazy tracking down the reason (just did this on my vibro king...so out came the needle nose to correct that stupidity)..if you or your amp guy are comfy inside the amp AFTER observing the many cautions on this and other forums....tighten all of the spade lug type of connections inside the amp...vibration from the amp when playing..and when cranked can cause al sorts of heck...and can be a real B...(Turkey) to find and repair...

4) consider re-tubing the amp...massive differences can be had.

5) don't swap out the speakers until you have broken them in 40+ hours before saying they sound crappy....or swap in whatever you know that works...for me for most of my amps a cesletion gold 12....works well, as do many others...(i have no ear experience with the newly designed Jensen "F" speakers)...

6) if the amp is in for repair and has TL072's in it swap them for TLE2072's for a upgrade..or OPA2134's for a major sound improvement (on the scope also)..but i have tried the opa as many times as i have tried the trouble free tle2072...in a tube amp noise is going to be such that the tl072 is a great fit but for the loop and in some units the reverb circuits use the tl072..and i like quiet loops and reverb....so i swap out the chips

7) consider the planet waves guitar cords with gold connectors with the GROUND (sleeve) outward BELLOWS (springs they call them) ..those babies give the best connection to amps and guitars with 1/4"+ connectors (the Chinese ones)....

http://www.planetwaves.com/pwProductDet ... ment_Cable

HIGHLY consider getting a cable like this for your instrument cables...and patch cords

8> consider 6201 qualified 12AT7's for your PI drivers or the reverb drivers that uses the AT7...nice improvement the 6201's were / are used in tons of condenser mic's

9) get some NOS or even new "preferred series" 7205's for preamp tubes V1, possibly V2 depending on the amp), and try some JJ or JAN 5751's in your gain stages) old school fenders used 7025's for the preamps a nice improvement in noise and in gain in most situations, the 5751 has less gain than a 12AX7...and a lot of folk like them in their amps...Stevie is one who comes to mind... me too in the vibro king AFTER 7025 tubes... :mrgreen:

10) If familiar with the g=ts of an amp..if it is using 100 ohm resistors on the filament circuits of tube amps for hum attenuation...verify they are darn close to each other in values..Personally I used hand matched RN65 100.0 1% ohm resistors and have very little hum from the amps that were not quite 100+100 ohms...and imbalance will amp up the hum level a wee bit

11) WELL, ANYONE ELSE WANNA LAY DOWN SOME SAGE ADVICE? :roll:

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Post subject: Re: All who tweak their amps or want to & a nice cable link
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:39 pm
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Interesting advice.


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Post subject: Re: All who tweak their amps or want to & a nice cable link
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:46 pm
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rollo wrote:
11) WELL, ANYONE ELSE WANNA LAY DOWN SOME SAGE ADVICE? :roll:


Why the eye rolling? There are a lot of threads on here with general advice, advice for specific amp mods, amp builds, etc. This forum is heavily populated by engineers, technicians, amp builders, amp designers, and others that are willing and able to provide help to others in a clear, concise, and professional manner.

These are some of my threads.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=63259

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=80142&p=911995

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=65668

viewtopic.php?uid=249758&f=13&t=81655&start=0

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Post subject: Re: All who tweak their amps or want to & a nice cable link
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:31 pm
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rollo wrote:
...if the amp ...has TL072's in it swap them for TLE2072's for a upgrade..or OPA2134's for a major sound improvement (on the scope also)..but i have tried the opa as many times as i have tried the trouble free tle2072...in a tube amp noise is going to be such that the tl072 is a great fit but for the loop and in some units the reverb circuits use the tl072..and i like quiet loops and reverb....so i swap out the chips

...get some NOS or even new "preferred series" 7205's for preamp tubes V1, possibly V2 depending on the amp)...


I finally ordered some chip sockets to try out various op amps in my HRDlx, and I will add the TLE2072, and OPA2131 to my list of ones to try. Already on my list are; AD642, AD712, OPA2131, and OPA2604, but I'm most concerned about crosstalk, and so far the crosstalk specs (when given) are about the same for all.

+1 on the "Preferred Series" tubes, they are terrific, mil-spec I believe, but I prefer 7025 to the 7205 any day. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: All who tweak their amps or want to & a nice cable link
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:45 am
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shimmilou wrote:
rollo wrote:
...if the amp ...has TL072's in it swap them for TLE2072's for a upgrade..or OPA2134's for a major sound improvement (on the scope also)..but i have not tried the opa as many times as i have tried the trouble free tle2072...in a tube amp noise is going to be such that the tl072 is a great fit but for the loop and in some units the reverb circuits use the tl072..and i like quiet loops and reverb....so i swap out the chips

...get some NOS or even new "preferred series" 7205's for preamp tubes V1, possibly V2 depending on the amp)...


I finally ordered some chip sockets to try out various op amps in my HRDlx, and I will add the TLE2072, and OPA2131 to my list of ones to try. Already on my list are; AD642, AD712, OPA2131, and OPA2604, but I'm most concerned about crosstalk, and so far the crosstalk specs (when given) are about the same for all.

+1 on the "Preferred Series" tubes, they are terrific, mil-spec I believe, but I prefer 7025 to the 7205 any day. :lol:


OOPS :oops: 7025 YES INDEED....

Primer for the lurkers
OPA2134's are the sound plus JFETs (dual package) a step up from the TL0, TLE...but considering the tube amp is inherently noisy (most guitar amps that is). The loop in the supersonic22 (mine) will not send a 1Khz 0 offset sqarewave through the loop JUST the loop when fed from a hi or low Z signal source. I had a slight improvement with the tle2072 but my noise floor dropped, and considering the specs ...anything else is maybe out of the realm of tube amp swaps for IC's... (although noise is additive-so a clean loop is a good thing)...so who knows maybe a nice tle, opa AD chip will make things nice...i currently have the tle2072 in my loop. Might try the OPA...but getting back to the noisy tube amp thing....(but the loop will be pristine eh?)

For those on the forum who would like to check it out here are the goods

REFERENCES
a nice reference for ALL....who have op amps in their lives

One manufactures selection guide (the front end has most terminology stated)
http://www.analog.com/static/imported-f ... _FINAL.pdf

Another good source
http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slaa068a/slaa068a.pdf

ONE OF THE masters...google walt jung op amps and you'll be in for a lot of reading

Bob Pease (same thing)

Some of walt's teachings

http://www.analog.com/library/analogDia ... _final.pdf

http://www.analog.com/library/analogDia ... inal_R.pdf

http://www.analog.com/library/analogDia ... inal_I.pdf

Full meal deal
http://www.analog.com/library/analogDia ... dbook.html

GOOD STUFF HERE
lots of data and tables

http://www.eetimes.com/design/audio-des ... properties


THE CHIPS (common)..there are many, so so many (sticking with the guitar amp stuff..not audiophile, pro audio stuff (then we get in to STOOOPID specs for use in a tube amp PERIOD...unless ya just gotta brag (leaving out a LOT of good audio chips) 4560, 4580, NJM2114M etc

TL072 (look at noise, THD, slew rates, IM, in and out offsets, current draw etc...thei is the industry standard JFET device

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tl072.pdf

TLE2072 (specifically designed to replace/upgrade the tl072) least amount of swapping hassles (cuz you can swap a chip in a circuit and the circuit can go way bad on ya...oscillations, NOISE, and stuff too scary to think about

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tle2072.pdf

opa2134

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/opa2134.pdf

For contrast (non fet opamp specs)
the grandpa - ubiquitous 741 op amp...still used in circuits

http://www.ti.com/product/ua741

the NE5532 (defacto bad boy and still is pretty darn good)
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ne5534.pdf

now here is a ripper -simply STOOOPIDLY good specs
LM4562
http://www.ti.com/product/lm4562

LME49710
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lme49710.pdf this puppy is golden (but NOT FET based)

Fet and bipolar from TI/national/burr brown

http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/audio-ic/audi ... Id=1200585

then you can go here and get really freaky

http://mnats.net/JE-990.html

BASIC discrete FET opamp

http://www.forsselltech.com/media/attac ... _Opamp.PDF

http://www.sonicimagerylabs.com/product ... t_Rev0.pdf

IMHO any better specs are WASTED on a tube amp...the 2134 and TLE are OVERKILL as is for a tube amp with the exception of slew rates, noise (as in adding more to the signal or amp's noise floor and some folks just like swapping (like pick ups, capacitors in guitars etc).

Also for those that are not aware...opamp circuits are GENERALLY designed around the ability and chip's topology (FET, Bi-Fet, Bipolar transistors) of the specific device meaning; (hopefully) resistor selections are made to keep the noise, cmrr etc as close to spec as required..same with feed forward caps etc for the circuit, source and output loading, impedance etc. generally not a good idea to mix chip topologies

the much maligned TL072 and in the other world the NE5534 (great chips STILL) on some forums are routinely swapped....if the swapper made measurements for noise, and all the audio parameters on a perfectly set up A/B test schema then the swapper could see the disadvantages in swapping out/in dissimilar types of chip construction. However, sometimes it works out fine for some folks (or does it?) :mrgreen:

nice little roll in the hay for the nerd in us..

Fun stuff

http://www.planetanalog.com/

http://www.digilentinc.com/pmodpack/

HV Fet pre schematic (supertex has some regulators that will regulate from 450Vdc on down....
http://www.hawestv.com/amp_projects/amp ... #schematic :shock: :mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: All who tweak their amps or want to & a nice cable link
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:52 am
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:mrgreen:
LME49990
OPA1611/1612
OPA1632
OPA1602/
LME49870
LME49600
OPA1652/
OPA1641/1642/1644
OPA1662

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Post subject: Re: All who tweak their amps or want to & a nice cable link
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:09 pm
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Forget it! I'm only going to try a few...... :lol:

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Post subject: Re: All who tweak their amps or want to & a nice cable link
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:58 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Forget it! I'm only going to try a few...... :lol:


And I doubt it will make any audible difference. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: All who tweak their amps or want to & a nice cable link
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:06 pm
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Maybe not, but only one way to find out. I'm more interested in getting less crosstalk for the loop, so it will really be bypassed instead of getting some of the preamp signal through when using a dummy plug in the Power Amp In, for silent recording. I'm not sure that I can get any better than what I have now, I just have to try. :?:

The beauty is, free samples from TI, up to three of each, which is exactly how many that I need for the HRDlx. :D Although, I don't know why I would want to change the switching op amp.....? But, having the sockets will allow quick changes for experiments or in case of failure.

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Post subject: Re: All who tweak their amps or want to & a nice cable link
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:06 pm
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It'll be interesting to see your results.

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Post subject: Re: All who tweak their amps or want to & a nice cable link
Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:29 pm
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Funny, I've heard nothing but terrible things about those Planet Waves compression spring plug cables. Reason being that with prolonged use they wear out the jack such that you can only use those cables after a while.

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Post subject: Re: All who tweak their amps or want to & a nice cable link
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:58 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
shimmilou wrote:
Forget it! I'm only going to try a few...... :lol:


And I doubt it will make any audible difference. :wink:
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:


Yeah but at least you know....well i still have to make final noise measurements of the TLE's i have in the loop then to opa2134's and that's it...those are overkill in a tube ampl...but knowing your loop has the "gud stuff" GOLDEN!!!!

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Post subject: Re: All who tweak their amps or want to & a nice cable link
Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:31 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
rollo wrote:
...if the amp ...has TL072's in it swap them for TLE2072's for a upgrade..or OPA2134's for a major sound improvement (on the scope also)..but i have tried the opa as many times as i have tried the trouble free tle2072...in a tube amp noise is going to be such that the tl072 is a great fit but for the loop and in some units the reverb circuits use the tl072..and i like quiet loops and reverb....so i swap out the chips

...get some NOS or even new "preferred series" 7205's for preamp tubes V1, possibly V2 depending on the amp)...


I finally ordered some chip sockets to try out various op amps in my HRDlx, and I will add the TLE2072, and OPA2131 to my list of ones to try. Already on my list are; AD642, AD712, OPA2131, and OPA2604, but I'm most concerned about crosstalk, and so far the crosstalk specs (when given) are about the same for all.

+1 on the "Preferred Series" tubes, they are terrific, mil-spec I believe, but I prefer 7025 to the 7205 any day. :lol:


Hello Shimmilou

Please could you comment on your experience trying TLE2072 and OPA 2134 on the fx loop of your Hot Rod Deluxe? do you think there is a winner? is other one better than this 2?

Please your reply is very important for me, since I can't have the opportunity to try them before import them. I live in Venezuela :cry:


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Post subject: Re: All who tweak their amps or want to & a nice cable link
Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:02 pm
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Hey algajgg,

I never got around to trying any other chips. Whenever I use my HRDlx, it sounds so good the way it is that I just keep playing and forget all about any more changes. I am sure that there is not a huge sound difference between any of the op-amps listed, especially in this particular application. There might be slight differences, that I would bet are imperceptible to most.

You'll get more significant changes in tone by using different tubes and/or speakers, IMO.

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Post subject: Re: All who tweak their amps or want to & a nice cable link
Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:45 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Hey algajgg,

I never got around to trying any other chips. Whenever I use my HRDlx, it sounds so good the way it is that I just keep playing and forget all about any more changes. I am sure that there is not a huge sound difference between any of the op-amps listed, especially in this particular application. There might be slight differences, that I would bet are imperceptible to most.

You'll get more significant changes in tone by using different tubes and/or speakers, IMO.


Hello Shimmilou

I'm super grateful with you guys in this forum, you are so kind and helpful.
Shimmilou when you say that your Hot Rod Deluxe sound so good the way it is...... you mean stock? does your HRdlx has TL072 in U1?

My Hot Rod Deville sounds terrific right now, all the pre tubes are Telefunken NOS (V1 12AT7, V2 12AT7, V3 12AX7) , but when using my M13 in it's fx loop there is some noise and I hear the fx quite distant, without definition. What I'm trying to achieve with swapping the U1 TL072 for OPA 2134 or TLE2072 is less noise and more articulation and definition of the Fx in the loop.


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