It is currently Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:01 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Post subject: problems with low frequency distortion on clean channels
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:02 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:01 pm
Posts: 1598
Ok...not really sure if this is a guitar problem or an amp problem so please forgive me if anyone feels this is posted in the wrong place....


Here's the story: I've been using my Bugera V22 in this Southern Rock band I'm in and a few gigs back I noticed that I was having a bit of a time trying to get the clean channel clean. Thought maybe it was a pedal or even a weak battery or something, so I tried the guitar right into the amp...nadda...clean channel was still breaking up. Ok...I figured the tubes in the Bugera are the originals after all and I've had the amp for a couple of years now, so I switched to my Princeton 112 Plus for the last couple of shows until I could get the money up for a re-tube. Guess what? Same problem on the Princeton. In fact the band just did a small recording session this last week here my my studio and even though we weren't running anywhere near the volume level we do on stage, the distortion on the clean channel was pretty bad. I've tried a couple different Strats now so I'm pretty sure it's not the guitar(s) either. I've even tried a couple different cables...still nadda. I'm pretty sure it's not the speakers either...not like there's any tears in the cones or anything of that nature. I tried doinkin' with my amp settings a little but I'm running the highs and lows pretty flat up the middle on both amps so that shouldn't be causing it. The only thing that seems to help at all is backing the volume on the guitars off just a bit. Basically the breakup occurs with full chords and such...not really noticing it with leads or anything...and it really seems to be limited to just the low frequencies....the the bottom of an open E chord for example (I hope that makes sense).

I know it's gotta be something really simple that I'm just over-looking but it's getting rather annoying...being mostly Southern Rock with this group (we bill it as "Rock and Roll with a Southern Sauce"), I do -A LOT- of stuff on the clean channel.

Any thoughts on what I may be missing?
Thanks,
Jim


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: problems with low frequency distortion on clean channels
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:29 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:08 am
Posts: 2265
Check the bias, my egnater amp was running SED winged C 6L6's
I noticed the volume would drop a little in the gain channel, I checked the bias
Measuring 21/32 I had originally biased 26/29.
With the issues I was getting I reinstalled GT 6l6 biased @25/27
Biased a little hot, the clean channel has a lot less head room, breaks up
easily with the Paul and its a 40watt.

_________________
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the present."

oogway, kungfu panda 2008


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: problems with low frequency distortion on clean channels
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:49 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:01 pm
Posts: 1598
bluesstrattone wrote:
Check the bias, my egnater amp was running SED winged C 6L6's
I noticed the volume would drop a little in the gain channel, I checked the bias
Measuring 21/32 I had originally biased 26/29.
With the issues I was getting I reinstalled GT 6l6 biased @25/27
Biased a little hot, the clean channel has a lot less head room, breaks up
easily with the Paul and its a 40watt.



I had considered that as I've heard in a few places now that these Bugera's do tend to run a bit hot. BUT...that Princeton isn't tube...it's solid state. The clean channel on that little Princeton should be clean as a whistle even at higher volumes (let alone the lower volumes we were playing at Saturday)....hence why I'm looking for other areas that I may be over-looking.


Other thoughts?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: problems with low frequency distortion on clean channels
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:06 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:08 am
Posts: 2265
I'm completely stumped, I overlooked the part of the Princeton.

_________________
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the present."

oogway, kungfu panda 2008


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: problems with low frequency distortion on clean channels
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:47 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:54 am
Posts: 1179
Location: Florida
Sunspots?

Different amps, different cables, different guitars, no pedals.

Really stupid question, does everyone else in the band hear the distortion as well?

No kidding, could be an early onset hearing problem. Back in high school '70 one of our bass players wore ear protection because his was going. At 18. :shock: He looked sort of like Mickey Mouse because these were the same things you wear at the gun range.

Of course, if everyone else hears the same thing, forget I mentioned it. I'm stumped.

Art


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: problems with low frequency distortion on clean channels
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:02 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:01 pm
Posts: 1598
Art1 wrote:
Sunspots?

Different amps, different cables, different guitars, no pedals.

Really stupid question, does everyone else in the band hear the distortion as well?

No kidding, could be an early onset hearing problem. Back in high school '70 one of our bass players wore ear protection because his was going. At 18. :shock: He looked sort of like Mickey Mouse because these were the same things you wear at the gun range.

Of course, if everyone else hears the same thing, forget I mentioned it. I'm stumped.

Art


Yes...everyone else is hearing it too (including my wife).


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: problems with low frequency distortion on clean channels
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:09 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
I suspect a wonky input cable.

Try a new one of premium quality.

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: problems with low frequency distortion on clean channels
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:24 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:54 am
Posts: 1179
Location: Florida
Retroverbial wrote:
I suspect a wonky input cable.

Try a new one of premium quality.

Arjay



+1

But I think he tried different cables. But go out and get a high quality premium cable. Even if that doesn't cure it, at least you'll have a good cable. Most of the cables the goons in the store push at you aren't meant to last a year and tune in every motorcycle that rolls by.

And I had to ask about the hearing. It happens.

Art


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: problems with low frequency distortion on clean channels
Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:27 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
I typically get two to three years out of a "lifetime-guaranteed" cable before they start to flake out on me.

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: problems with low frequency distortion on clean channels
Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:41 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:54 am
Posts: 1179
Location: Florida
I was kinda thinking bad choke but it does this with two different amps. I'm stumped.

And it does this at home, at gigs, no matter where you are?

Art


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: problems with low frequency distortion on clean channels
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:37 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:49 am
Posts: 441
lomitus wrote:
The only thing that seems to help at all is backing the volume on the guitars off just a bit.

lomitus, if it's both amps, & you already tried different cables, guitars, etc. & you get the same results, 1st, I would keep experimenting w/the eq & volume & maybe try positioning the amps differently, like raising them off the floor or tilting them. & or micing them to a p.a. & playing them at a lower volume. 2nd, Or you might want a bigger amp w/more volume & headroom. hence your above quote. e.g. 40w tube amp or a 100w SS might do the trick.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: problems with low frequency distortion on clean channels
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:49 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:49 am
Posts: 441
mojjett wrote:
lomitus wrote:
The only thing that seems to help at all is backing the volume on the guitars off just a bit.

lomitus, if it's both amps, & you already tried different cables, guitars, etc. & you get the same results, 1st, I would keep experimenting w/the eq & volume & maybe try positioning the amps differently, like raising them off the floor or tilting them. & or micing them to a p.a. & playing them at a lower volume. 2nd, Or you might want a bigger amp w/more volume & headroom. hence your above quote. e.g. 40w tube amp or a 100w SS might do the trick.

Or just keep the volume on your guitar backed off :wink:


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: problems with low frequency distortion on clean channels
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:56 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:01 pm
Posts: 1598
Ok...sorry I got away from this for a few days there but today was the first day I was really able to get down there and start playing with this again.

To address a couple of comments here...I'm about 99.5% sure that it's not the cable(s). No I don't own any "Monster" cables, but most of mine are from Pro Co and other brands that are of pretty reasonable quality. I've also had some -cheap- guitar cables, so yea...I do understand the reference concern there (still have a really old coiled cable that picks up certain local AM radio stations! LOL). I also just used a number of them recording last Saturday...clean as a whistle there. Also...I've soldered a few jacks in my time too. In other words, yea...I get the cable thing, so I don't really think that's the problem. While I haven't bought a new one yet, I have tried several.

Also I should probably add that this is really the first time in all the years that I've been playing that I've really payed this close attention to my clean sounds. Coming from classic rock and blues, accept for acoustic work of course, I've always been focused on getting the distortions and such. With this Southern Rock stuff though, yea...I really need to get it clean. That said, the problem does seem to be getting worse, particularly with the Princeton so I don't think it's just me (and again the guys have noticed it too). Not like I'm suddenly hearing something that I never noticed before or anything.

Now, I did just do some experimenting down there. The Bugera's pretty bad with this problem and the Princeton is -real- bad...was just plugged straight into the amp again with my '96 MIM and on the clean channel...yea...probably could have played Highway to Hell...the distortion was -that- thick. Pretty much at all volume levels too and again mainly the lower frequencies (particularly with bar chords). On the other hand... I also just plugged into my old Lab L5 (which I've been using primarily for acoustic lately) as well as my little Peavey Backstage...there's -a little- distortion on both of those amps, but nothing that I can't account for with my playing or the Duncan's in the MIM. And this is what got me to thinking...right now I'm actually getting a cleaner sound from my little Peavey than I am with the Princeton....

So here's my thinking...see if this sounds like it has ANY logic at all... First, I think I may be dealing with two different problems here right off the bat. Yes, I still think the Bugera really needs new tubes...I've had her for 4 or 5 years now and while the past few months is really the first time I've gigged her, I really suspect those tubes are probably due. With the Princeton however...this problem is fairly new and it seems to be getting worse. Thru 3 floors in the house here, my wife could hear it upstairs while I was down in the studio. What I'm wondering here is, could it be possible that the Duncan's in the MIM perhaps have a wider frequency range than the speaker in the Princeton can handle? Yea I play a lot of guitars thru my amps, mostly Strats, but I play Ol' Blue more than any of them. And with this new band, yea...I've been working the p_ss out of things too. Again it's happening with ALL of my guitars but if the problem was caused by the Duncan pickups, then the damage is done and would certainly affect the other guitars as well. Could I be killing speakers with those Duncans?

I have a couple of spare Eminance speakers down in the studio so I'm going to try and swap one out in the Princeton...I kind of hate to suspect that Blue Back but with a show tonight, I'm getting a bit desperate. I'll let ya know how it goes, but if anyone has some feedback on this, I'd be most grateful.

Thanks,
Jim


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: problems with low frequency distortion on clean channels
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:22 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
The temporary speaker swap for the Princeton cannot hurt and it would allow you to definitively rule out a bad driver (or not, as the case may be).

Give that a try.

As for the Bugera, 4 or 5 years from a set of OEM bottles is about par for the course these days -- it's a strong possibility that the amp is simply ready for new glass.

HTH

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: problems with low frequency distortion on clean channels
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:20 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:01 pm
Posts: 1598
Well, the speaker swap on the Princeton didn't help (although there was A LOT of crud around the speaker suspension on the blue back). Same problem. Unless I can find some other problem...something I'm doing as a guitar player perhaps, I'm thinkin' she may need to go into the shop (was gonna take the Bugera in for the new tubes anyways as I'm not really sure about if/how to bias that sucker). Maybe I can even have the guy change out the volume pot while it's in there since that's annoyed me to no end anyways (all the power is between 1 - 4...drives me nuts because I don't ALWAYS play cranked). I can't do it tonight cause I need to start packing for the gig, but in the next day or two I'll get a couple of sound clips and get them posted so you guys can hear what I'm talking about...maybe get an extra opinion or two before I take her in.

So with that I guess I'll be using the Lab tonight...not looking forward to hauling it up the stairs at the club we're playing at, but I guess I'll just deal.

L8r,
Jim


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: