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Post subject: cryo treated tubes
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:03 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Anybody with any experience with these? Is this snake oil or is there something to it? It seems logical that they would be less sensitive to temperature change, making them more durable, but I don't know of or heard of anybody using them.


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Post subject: Re: cryo treated tubes
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:24 am
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Sorry, IMHO snake oil. Cryo'ing does not make up for inferior material or construction.


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Post subject: Re: cryo treated tubes
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:08 pm
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Ask TAD. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: cryo treated tubes
Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:17 pm
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Are TAD tubes cryo treated? I don't know much about those either. The info on their site is very sparse. No mention of cryo treating. Actually there's no mention anywhere, at least I can't find anything, except from a site called Cryoset which does the treatment. & of course it's all rosey according to them.


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Post subject: Re: cryo treated tubes
Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:08 pm
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My fault, actually it is Watford Valves that treats the TAD tubes.

http://www.watfordvalves.com/products.asp?id=10&man=110

There are a lot of Cryo treated tubes, even including NOS.

https://www.tubeworld.com/kuhltubestock.htm

http://tubedepot.com/bsctfaq.html

http://www.tubeman.com/cat8_1.htm

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/cryo-tubes/

http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/index.php?osCsid=2268cad26f4aa567c05ad8a476336224

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Post subject: Re: cryo treated tubes
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:27 am
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thanks Shimmi :wink:


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Post subject: Re: cryo treated tubes
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:00 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Thanks for the links, shimmilou. Interesting reading.

Speaking as a curious bystander whose only hands-on lifetime experience is limited to changing three preamp tubes - and this on the advice and instruction of others - I would like to know what the real amp techs on this forum think of cryo treated tubes. Do they last longer, perform better than their non-cryo treated counterparts?

Thanks & Cheers!
BM

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Post subject: Re: cryo treated tubes
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:29 pm
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No experience with cryo tubes myself. Reading many reviews by people who have used them, the consensus is positive, including longer life and even better tone. Cryo treating has been around for over 50 years, lot's of science and experience to back up the claims. Only fairly recently has the same technology been applied to tubes. I would also like to hear from others on this forum that have actual experience with them. I see no reason to disbelieve the claims. A Google search reveals plenty of info and reviews.

This is one of the companies that does a lot of cryo treating for various industries, including tube resellers.

http://www.300below.com/

Note that Callaham is into cryo treatment for many of his products also. Check his site, bottom of the home page, the "Cryo & Pickups" link, as well as other parts that are treated.

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Post subject: Re: cryo treated tubes
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:51 pm
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Shimmy, from an EE point-of-view, how does super-cooling tubes improve performance or tube life? I mean cryogenics as been around for ages (I remember deep feezing tissues slide for electron-microscopy YEARS ago in College). You'd think some military dude would have thought of this for their $50 Bendix Red Bank tubes. Tubes that had no price ceiling, at the time.


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Post subject: Re: cryo treated tubes
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:55 am
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Going by what I read in these sites, as a layman, I could see that this process could at least prevent premature failure due metal fatigue, that in itself being a big +, but perhaps not giving the tube a longer than normal lifespan compared to a standard equivalent. JMHO. I still would like to hear from someone with first hand experience. Intriguing stuff in any case.


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Post subject: Re: cryo treated tubes
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:16 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
...how does super-cooling tubes improve performance or tube life?...


As mojjett pointed out, as I understand it, the metal parts of the tube would be strengthened against metal fatigue. The other claims include increased even distribution of the flow of electrons, reducing hot spots, and producing a more even or smooth tone. Again, these are the claims, and as with the rest of the expensive things that we experiment with, we would probably have to do some A/B comparisons for ourselves. I am just not so quick to dismiss the claims, but as with most anything that I do, I like to touch it, smell it, taste it, chew it, swallow it and pass it through my lower intestines to know for sure. :lol: Rest assured, just because I spend a few hundred bucks on something, I'm not going to fool myself into a false conclusion...cough, Egnater, cough, cough! :wink:

I think we can all agree that heating and/or stamping metal can cause fatigue, or tempering, changing the strength of the metal, so it makes sense that slowly super-cooling metal and slowly bringing it back to room temperature could have the opposite affect.

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Post subject: Re: cryo treated tubes
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:58 pm
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Shimmy, it would be very nice to do a long term A-B study including THD scope data and onset of OD, as well as life expectancy. I guess I kinda rail up against this treatment, because it is so highly touted in the hi-fi world. A world sometimes filled with unbelievable snake oil products. Like putting IC chips -- all by themselves --- onto CD players and claiming DEEP RICHNESS in tones. Or little pebbles taped to interconnects. Etc. :D

Me take one step back... breathe deeply... mind cleared... OK, ready! :mrgreen:


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Post subject: Re: cryo treated tubes
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:50 pm
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Another thing to add to my "want to do list". I have inquired about getting a couple of matched quads from both tubeman.com, and cryoset.com, one quad of JJ EL84 and one quad of JJ 6L6 (since they both offer JJ, my cheapest option for experiment), with two from each quad cryo treated and two not treated. Then, use each quad in the same amp, BJr for EL84, and HRDlx for 6L6, for a fair comparison. We'll see if this is possible from one or the other store. It will have to be a simple "by ear" sound comparison for now. Might be a while...

BTW, I do know that the old "penny on the record player arm" does help reduce skipping. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: cryo treated tubes
Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:13 pm
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Shimmilou provided me with a matched pair of cryogenically treated JJ 6L6GCs from Cryoset to try out:

http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_ ... 1c2e593314

I've been playing around with these yesterday and today (they arrived Friday). I have to be honest, but I am not that impressed.

I put them in my 5F6A clone and can't honestly say that they sound any different than the tubes from Eurotubes. Maybe the cryo treatment will help with tube life, but I don't hear any real sonic difference in them.

To make matters worse, the Cryoset tubes were not very well matched. They were only within 4 mA cathode current of each other and that was wavering. My tubes from Eurotubes are balanced within a solid 1 mA cathode current in my 5F6A clone and within 2 mA cathode current in the BDRI. I tried swapping the cryo tubes socket to socket, but the imbalance followed the swap. Right now, the Eurotubes 6L6GCs are biased at 48 mA plate current/433 VDC plate voltage and 49 mA plate current/432 VDC plate voltage (using the Weber bias calculator). There was about 4 mA plate current difference at the same plate voltages for the Cryoset tubes.

A set of tubes from Cryoset is $50 for a matched pair. They are only $36 a matched pair from Eurotubes. I don't think the price difference is worth it. Maybe if the Cryoset tubes matched better.

It was an interesting experiment, but I am unconvinced of the value of cryo treating the tubes in a guitar amp.

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Post subject: Re: cryo treated tubes
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:38 am
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Bill, thanks for the evaluation. Had this feeling about that Cryo thing.

The last amp I heard with Cryo tubes was this old Marshall Pig. Some Chinese "KT-88s." That experiment didn't work out too well. I think it was rewired to take GE (Owensboro, KY) STR-6CA7. Still blasting down walls. 750 plate volts! And those GE weren't even warm, according to owner.

Dang! I wished I'd picked up more GE 7581A, when everyone else was looking for RCA BP 6L6GCs. Oh well... another story. :D


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