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Post subject: Re: WHINE - supersonic 22
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:24 pm
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I thought this thread was going to be about a whine coming from the amp. :lol: Much better this way. :mrgreen:


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Post subject: Re: WHINE - supersonic 22
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:49 pm
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I know on My SS twin the signal chain from Input to speaker is pure Valve on the clean channel, and on the burn channel it uses the TL072's for the active frequency notch filter only (So I would still get an output even if the op-amps blew in my amp). So for your amp to go cmpletely dead would mean that when the fool blew your FX send output buffer chips it may have blown a fuse on the supply transformer or the blown IC's were completly loading that supply tranny to somehow kill guitar signal?

Just a thought, I do know the SS22 is quite different internally but might still use the same electronic philosophies in design as the Twin. I do hope you come right so you can get jammin on it again.

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Post subject: Re: WHINE - supersonic 22
Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:16 am
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Case in point. NEVER take any amp that has a large amount of solid-state devices to a tech that only works on tube amps. Completely different beasts.

I have some photos of post-bias adjusted solid-state amps that resemble Chernobyl.


:(


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Post subject: Re: WHINE - supersonic 22
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:41 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
Case in point. NEVER take any amp that has a large amount of solid-state devices to a tech that only works on tube amps. Completely different beasts.

I have some photos of post-bias adjusted solid-state amps that resemble Chernobyl.


:(


Kind'a like the backyard mechanic being introduced to modern fuel injection....

i roller the tl072's out and sub'd them with tle2072's, replaced the 100 uf electros with 470's
and bypassed the 470's with .1uf xr7 ceramics

sounds great - my initial testing showed absolutely no out of band or in band oscillations, but the square wave still exhibited a roll off even at 1khz but when i jacked up the signal level it started looking better...but i am going to investegate this and see if i can get a nice sq through the loop up to 22k...or at least 15k

rare non rainey day up here in the great northwest...gotta walk the dogs then i'll put it back on the bench and do my before and after comparison and post

stay tuned

BTW i recapped my 6g15 with sozo's ...like it...smooth next NOS horsepower

i had a 2nd VK in a head that was made...sold it (el84 rev) and so i believe i will get another and have mojotone make a head in some skank tolex and use tubular film and possibly some interesting ceramic stuff through the signal path


AND i may auto bias the 6l6's for jut a test with an lm117 or 317HV or derivative...stay tuned on that one similar to the oddwatt kt-88 kits possibly with bypassing..i read once on an audiophile circuit that was using a CCS that bypassing with a quality cap...forgot what this guy was using..just for poops and giggles... :shock: :mrgreen:

PS RE:Chernobyl, i was holed up at the carriage house at I-405 and the 110 in van nuys on the days of the incident. so i was kinda nulled off to sleep watch the stuff and my wife plugged a quarter in the bed vibrator - i thought it was an earthquake and bolted from the room - nekkied...and out came Annette funicello...and a few other fold to see the nekkid dude...

i smoked less 'erb the next day..... :oops:

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Post subject: Re: WHINE - supersonic 22
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:19 pm
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rollo wrote:
...replaced the 100 uf electros with 470's and bypassed the 470's with .1uf xr7 ceramics...


What do you mean, did you parallel the 470 and .1? If so, you now have a 470.1 µF cap, which would mean that it's pointless to add .1 µF cap. Am i missing something?

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Post subject: Re: WHINE - supersonic 22
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:43 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Am i missing something?


I'm missing most of what the OP writes. :lol: :lol: :lol:

PhD EE? Really? :shock:

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Post subject: Re: WHINE - supersonic 22
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:49 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
rollo wrote:
...replaced the 100 uf electros with 470's and bypassed the 470's with .1uf xr7 ceramics...


What do you mean, did you parallel the 470 and .1? If so, you now have a 470.1 µF cap, which would mean that it's pointless to add .1 µF cap. Am i missing something?


I'm baaaaack check this out... also in some applications coupling electrolytic's may be paralleled with another values for "shaping in effect"

(for everybody who is interested) it may be overkill...but i have parts laying around and it rains a lot up here this time of year :mrgreen:

http://www.ax84.com/bbs/dm.php?thread=281497

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/geekslut ... -film.html

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/41067 ... lytic-caps

next i just stumbled on an EDN mag i forgot to take out of the plastic and there is an insert on the best design ideas of 2013 in the mag...and in the analogue section is a pre amp tube with a constant current source on the PLATE not the cathode like some designs i have look through. i plugged my VK cab into the external n the 22...SWEET

also yanked c7 and the other one mod found on the www didn't do the 2.2uf swap of c1


http://www.reliablecapacitors.com/pickcap.htm

interesting some mods - scroll down

http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=19898

:mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: WHINE - supersonic 22
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:55 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
shimmilou wrote:
Am i missing something?


I'm missing most of what the OP writes. :lol: :lol: :lol:

PhD EE? Really? :shock:


Yup! AES member etc....and worked for the evil empire for years in hardware USAFA trained

EE yes...Ph.D. (but in pumping dual elliptical cavity based high energy lasers (laaser physics-not English composition) back in the early 80's after A&M

been tweaking amps since 65 built my first Heathkit radio in 1961...all i could pick up was the r&b station in NYC i was in Belchertown MA and 8....fun times

i prefer film around my 'lytics ...when i want them configured that way...."for 'da head" if nutt'n else :shock: :mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: WHINE - supersonic 22
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:23 pm
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Nothing better than a solution to a nonexistent problem. :lol: (ie, guitar amp's power supplies and 60/120 Hz). Maybe this is for switching supplies? Not sure where the high frequencies are in a guitar amp power supply, or where you would use a 100 µF or 470 µF cap in the signal path.

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Post subject: Re: WHINE - supersonic 22
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:34 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Nothing better than a solution to a nonexistent problem. :lol: (ie, guitar amp's power supplies and 60/120 Hz). Maybe this is for switching supplies? Not sure where the high frequencies are in a guitar amp power supply, or where you would use a 100 µF or 470 µF cap in the signal path.


i replaced the filter caps for the +/- 15vdc 100uf to 470.. lowed noise i'll post when done (noise as in ripple on the rails), and no it doesn't just apply to switching supplies...it has to do with shunting HF and helping out the 'lytics...quite common in pro audio and audiophile stuff...some of the best designers get a tad more ape than just a .1, .01 bypass....to the point at 60 years old and spend 27 years in front of most mesa boogie combos made or ,y trusty riviera 55/12 plus a boogie cab with open back celestion loaded top evm-12...bottom closed back 4x12.....don't know that i can tell the difference if i was a tad more anal i would have done a full noise look see...but this is a tube amp...the tle's are over kill but sound nice..tossed in a mxr carbon copy then tried a boss ddr-3 ad finally a mxr phase 90...all sounded good as did the loop unmolested by add on devices

and i live under the chinook A moa (f-18 practice aircraft carrier runyway close by and a electronic warfare and sub sim 3/4 miles away...s i see some weird sh&^ n my scopes and on my amps when around here playing if they are actively simulating.... makes my nakamichi FM IM pull off freq at the speed of the rotating EW antenna...sucks

BTW i have a nice little add in product soon to proto more later (very clean)

hope to start the kt-120 jazz amp soon :?

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Post subject: Re: WHINE - supersonic 22
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:36 pm
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rollo wrote:
shimmilou wrote:
Nothing better than a solution to a nonexistent problem. :lol: (ie, guitar amp's power supplies and 60/120 Hz). Maybe this is for switching supplies? Not sure where the high frequencies are in a guitar amp power supply, or where you would use a 100 µF or 470 µF cap in the signal path.


i replaced the filter caps for the +/- 15vdc 100uf to 470.. lowed noise i'll post when done (noise as in ripple on the rails), and no it doesn't just apply to switching supplies...it has to do with shunting HF and helping out the 'lytics...quite common in pro audio and audiophile stuff...some of the best designers get a tad more ape than just a .1, .01 bypass....to the point at 60 years old and spend 27 years in front of most mesa boogie combos made or ,y trusty riviera 55/12 plus a boogie cab with open back celestion loaded top evm-12...bottom closed back 4x12.....don't know that i can tell the difference if i was a tad more anal i would have done a full noise look see...but this is a tube amp...the tle's are over kill but sound nice..tossed in a mxr carbon copy then tried a boss ddr-3 ad finally a mxr phase 90...all sounded good as did the loop unmolested by add on devices

and i live under the chinook A moa (f-18 practice aircraft carrier runyway close by and a electronic warfare and sub sim 3/4 miles away...s i see some weird sh&^ n my scopes and on my amps when around here playing if they are actively simulating.... makes my nakamichi FM IM pull off freq at the speed of the rotating EW antenna...sucks

BTW i have a nice little add in product soon to proto more later (very clean)

hope to start the kt-120 jazz amp soon :?


some guys even add power entry emi/rfi filters and Tranzorbs on the power tranny primaries....

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Post subject: Re: WHINE - supersonic 22
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:39 pm
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Ok... AFAIK, good quality non-polar bypass caps helps in reducing switching noise in units with earlier 1N4007 or older selenium style diodes. You can eliminate these extra bypass cap by using more modern ultra-fast switching diodes (like the UF4007).

If you want a stout PS, that is quiet --- you need to work-up a good power supply software simulator. And I'd use chokes as well as good caps and low-inductance resistor (like ww Mills). Problem is, a good choke needed for the output is gonna be big (maybe as big as the PT) and $$$. But, you'll have a PS that is rock steady and last forever.

PSUD2 is a simple program to silmuate load and ripple:

http://www.duncanamps.com/psud2/download.html

See Part 4, of the link:

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/capacitors.htm#4.0


One step further, would be the use of quality motor-run non-polar caps. Believe me, motor run cap and good choke or two will give you clean power with instant transient response.

I don't like those bits on the Net about raising the cap mfd to "infinity" to get clean power. Not without a good feel for the effect on time-constants. Too much capacitance can lead to slow transient response and crazy in-rush problems (prolly the reason for using a CL, current-limiter in many poorly designed PS units).

Reminds me of all those "experts" making humungous power supplies for car stereo sub-woofer units. Like 10,000 to 25,000mfd / 100 VDC cap cans. These can blowout your car's ECM if the warm-up isn't relayed or the wiring shorts out.

Anyhow, just my 2¢ worth of 2¢ :lol:


Last edited by BMW2002Ti on Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: WHINE - supersonic 22
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:14 pm
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OK, I do see these small value caps used in some guitar amps' power supplies. :?:

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Post subject: Re: WHINE - supersonic 22
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:32 pm
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Good article on why eliminating power supply ripple in a tube amp may not be a good thing:

http://ampbooks.com/home/classic-circui ... AB-ripple/

Here's the complete study for a little bedtime reading:

http://www.emsp.tu-berlin.de/fileadmin/ ... se_NTl.pdf

Oh. I neglected to mention its in German. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: WHINE - supersonic 22
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:00 am
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Deutsche Sprache ist kein Problem. So lang wie gibt es keine Mathe im Artikel.

Aber um jene ripple Wirkung. Oops! About that ripple effect. An excellent article. Similar to Valve Wizard's:

http://www.valvewizard.co.uk/smoothing.html

Not many ppl have a good handle on time-constant and its effect on overall response of an amp.

Auf Wiedersehen!

:lol: :lol:


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