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Post subject: Re: Modifications To The Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue Amp
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:24 am
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shimmilou wrote:
IIRC, bluesky636 didn't state a downside to the jumper on the mid pot, just that he liked the control of the mids just fine without the jumper, and didn't feel the need to dial out more mids. For me, the jumper allowed the ability to dial out more mids, to a much more scooped tone, while retaining the ability to have the same amount of mids as without the jumper. I find that the whole tone stack has a broader range with the jumper. IMO, there is no downside to adding the jumper, except maybe the labor involved (I pulled the board and added the jumper underneath, rather than trying to put the jumper on top).

Thanks for the input. I might do it if I happen to be in there doing other "stuff".


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Post subject: Re: Modifications To The Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue Amp
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:42 am
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bluesky636 wrote:
For the record, I am also now running a 5751 in V1 instead of a 12AY7. I wanted to get a little gain back for some good drive out of the clean channel (I no longer use pedals and don't use the drive channel although my mods have it sounding really good). Can't remember if it is a NOS JAN 5751 or a new JJ 5751, though. :lol:

That's interesting; 5751's are sure easier to find than 12AY7's. Have you ever tried a ECC81 in V1? I originally bought the "Blues Option" tube kit from Eurotubes which uses a JJ ECC81 in V2 for less gain. I didn't like it that much and switched back to the stock GT in that slot. I have this ECC81 laying around but haven't tried it in V1. I guess it would be easy enough to pick up a JJ 5751 and try both in V1, not that I have a major issue with the JJ ECC83S in V1. Your tone mod will probably have a bigger impact. If I've read things correctly, the tone stack mod back on page 5 that changed out C5, C7, and R12 was the only one that made a significant difference. Did I get that right?


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Post subject: Re: Modifications To The Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue Amp
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:21 pm
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etzeppy wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
For the record, I am also now running a 5751 in V1 instead of a 12AY7. I wanted to get a little gain back for some good drive out of the clean channel (I no longer use pedals and don't use the drive channel although my mods have it sounding really good). Can't remember if it is a NOS JAN 5751 or a new JJ 5751, though. :lol:

That's interesting; 5751's are sure easier to find than 12AY7's. Have you ever tried a ECC81 in V1? I originally bought the "Blues Option" tube kit from Eurotubes which uses a JJ ECC81 in V2 for less gain. I didn't like it that much and switched back to the stock GT in that slot. I have this ECC81 laying around but haven't tried it in V1. I guess it would be easy enough to pick up a JJ 5751 and try both in V1, not that I have a major issue with the JJ ECC83S in V1. Your tone mod will probably have a bigger impact. If I've read things correctly, the tone stack mod back on page 5 that changed out C5, C7, and R12 was the only one that made a significant difference. Did I get that right?


ECC81 = 12AT7. Sounds terrible in V1. Very brittle and cold. 5751 has about the same gain factor and is warmer and smoother.

Changing C7 makes the highs a little smoother sounding.

Changing C5 rolls the low bass off earlier and eliminates a lot of boom and farting.

Changing R12 will give you more lower midrange with single coils. However, since I mostly use the amp with humbuckers (Burstbucker 1 and 2 in my Epiphone 1960 Les Paul Standard V1), I went back from 56K to 100K. 56K made the buckers a little muddy in the mids.

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Post subject: Re: Modifications To The Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue Amp
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:34 am
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bluesky636 wrote:

ECC81 = 12AT7. Sounds terrible in V1. Very brittle and cold. 5751 has about the same gain factor and is warmer and smoother.

Thanks for that tip. I won't waste my time with the ECC81 and will just get a 5751.

As for the C7 mod, I noticed that you left the value the same. I have seen a few other mods posted (actually geared towards the HRD) where they changed that value from 250pf to 500pf. The claim was that it shifts the high response down a little to cut some of the shrillness when running the terrible setting on the higher side. Did you experiment at all with other values of C7 or was your focus strictly on getting closer to the Bassman EQ performance?


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Post subject: Re: Modifications To The Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue Amp
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:24 pm
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etzeppy wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:

ECC81 = 12AT7. Sounds terrible in V1. Very brittle and cold. 5751 has about the same gain factor and is warmer and smoother.

Thanks for that tip. I won't waste my time with the ECC81 and will just get a 5751.

As for the C7 mod, I noticed that you left the value the same. I have seen a few other mods posted (actually geared towards the HRD) where they changed that value from 250pf to 500pf. The claim was that it shifts the high response down a little to cut some of the shrillness when running the terrible setting on the higher side. Did you experiment at all with other values of C7 or was your focus strictly on getting closer to the Bassman EQ performance?


Here is the tone stack plot of my BDRI. The green curve is with the 250 pF treble cap and the red curve is with the 500 pF cap. The 500 pF cap significantly increases the upper midrange, about 3 dB at 1000 Hz, but the max value is the same as 250 pF. The tonestack for my Trainwreck Express clone uses the 500 pF cap. It sounds very different from the Fender tonestack. Extreme brightness (shrillness) is typically due to an increased upper midrange, not the highest part of the treble.

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Post subject: Re: Modifications To The Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue Amp
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:50 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
Here is the tone stack plot of my BDRI. The green curve is with the 250 pF treble cap and the red curve is with the 500 pF cap. The 500 pF cap significantly increases the upper midrange, about 3 dB at 1000 Hz, but the max value is the same as 250 pF. The tonestack for my Trainwreck Express clone uses the 500 pF cap. It sounds very different from the Fender tonestack. Extreme brightness (shrillness) is typically due to an increased upper midrange, not the highest part of the treble.

Wow. You're the man. Can't thank you enough for this thread. I'm going to toss a 5751 in V1 and I'll probably go a ahead and recap C5 and C7; I'll stick with 200pF. I'm still debating the reverb mod and that TwinStack middle pot mod.


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Post subject: Re: Modifications To The Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue Amp
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:41 pm
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etzeppy wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
Here is the tone stack plot of my BDRI. The green curve is with the 250 pF treble cap and the red curve is with the 500 pF cap. The 500 pF cap significantly increases the upper midrange, about 3 dB at 1000 Hz, but the max value is the same as 250 pF. The tonestack for my Trainwreck Express clone uses the 500 pF cap. It sounds very different from the Fender tonestack. Extreme brightness (shrillness) is typically due to an increased upper midrange, not the highest part of the treble.

Wow. You're the man. Can't thank you enough for this thread. I'm going to toss a 5751 in V1 and I'll probably go a ahead and recap C5 and C7; I'll stick with 200pF. I'm still debating the reverb mod and that TwinStack middle pot mod.


Have fun. :D

BTW, here are my build threads:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=65668

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=83741&p=945479#p945479

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Post subject: Re: Modifications To The Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue Amp
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:06 am
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Here's a little update. Today I did the following:

put a JJ 5751 in V1
replaced C7 with a 250pF silver mica cap
replaced C5 with a .022 mF Orange Drop 716 600V cap
Removed R113 to break the reverb bleed circuit

I would like to have performed the so called TwinStack mod for the Middle pot but I could not figure out how to do it without pulling the circuit board. I think I'm done. The best I can tell the results were all positive. I assume it would obvious if I failed to make a good connection with one of the new caps. The tone controls are responsive as I would have expected.

I will have to play it a while to form a complete opinion, but I think I like it. I did too many things at once to truly evaluate the mods independently, but I'm pretty comfortable with the outcome and will run with this setup for a while.

Thanks again to bluesky636 for all of the great info in this thread and thanks to those that chimed in and stimulated the conversation.

Cheers!


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Post subject: Re: Modifications To The Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue Amp
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:54 am
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Enjoy!

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Post subject: Re: Modifications To The Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue Amp
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:35 am
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I finally got use these mods at a real stage volume. What a difference. Between the Cannabis Rex speaker change out, 5751 in V1, and cap replacements, the overall tone was great. I went from ice pick highs to smooth rich tone. The other guitarist was using a 59' Bassman RI and my BDRI held it's own with it nicely.


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Post subject: Re: Modifications To The Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue Amp
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:05 pm
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Glad things worked out. :D

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Post subject: Re: Modifications To The Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue Amp
Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:06 pm
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Greetings, comrades in amps. I'm not a regular here, so, this is my first post. I wanted to say thanks to BlueSky and the other posters on this thread for helping tremendously give new life to a most unwanted amp. It has now become a really loved amp.

I got my BDRI a few months ago from a fellow musician. He asked $250 for it, plus a sworn statement saying I wouldn't ever try to give it back. It really sounded horrible, an ice pick ninja with anemic mids and a flabby bottom. But when I found this thread, I got the last laugh. :lol:

I did all mods and fixes outlined in detail and reasoned with compelling clarity by BlueSky on pp. 3, 4 and 5 of this thread. Except I didn't do the reverb mod (I happen to agree with Fender on that one). But then I went further.

First, on the suggestion of an amp tech, I substituted a 100uf 500v cap for C32. That fixed the low end farting on high volume (this amp doesn't seem to have other volume settings). Next, since a lot of BlueSky's mods targeted a tweed Bassman (which is what I really wanted), I switched to 2x10" Jensen C10Q (I'm not a big fan of alnico speakers' nasally tones).

Then, before putting the amp back together, I applied four coats of blond shellac to the tweed. If you think this is purely for looks and protection, you'd be mistaken. The thing absorbs high frequencies. Try it, even if it's the only "mod" you do. You just might be surprised.

The amp sounded beautiful. I play a Telecaster on it with the Bright switch on and Treble at 7 - can you imagine that? But the damn thing was still too loud. So, I substituted two vintage 6V6GTs in place of the 6L6s, biased them at 30 mv (I like them hot) and there it is - that wonderful, true Blues sound.

And at manageable volume levels too. It is still louder than my Deluxe Reverb and breaks up even earlier. Even the gain channel sounds delicious. Now, if I wanted to go back to loud and more clean headroom, I simply switch back to the 6L6s and re-bias.

Hey, two amps for a whopping $250 and some mods. Who would have thought?

[PS: Tried to post some pics but it seems they have to be hosted externally. I'll try do that maybe tomorrow.]


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Post subject: Re: Modifications To The Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue Amp
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:01 pm
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That's awesome DrEvil. 8)

I just added another 47 mF in parallel with the first 47mF in my HRDlx, effectively the same as your 100 mF cap, and it did tighten up the bass a bit.

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Post subject: Re: Modifications To The Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue Amp
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:19 pm
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DrEvil wrote:
Greetings, comrades in amps. I'm not a regular here, so, this is my first post. I wanted to say thanks to BlueSky and the other posters on this thread for helping tremendously give new life to a most unwanted amp. It has now become a really loved amp.


Glad to be of help.

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Post subject: Re: Modifications To The Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue Amp
Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:30 pm
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Some pics:

Image

The black 100uf cap is on C31, not C32 as I said on my previous post. Note that C6 was also replaced with an orange drop, in addition to changes to C5, C7 and R12.

Image

Jensen C10Qs.

Image

The speaker hole cut outs don't look too professional, but they're good enough. I used 3/4" maple plywood for the baffle.

Image

Closed up, peeking through the back panel ports are the smoke glass 6V6GTs and gold plated speaker jack at the end of 14 ga wire.

Image

I didn't clean the tweed prior to applying shellac which gave it a good vintage look. Oh, and a blue lamp jewel.

Image

2006 Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue, modded 2014.

Some final thoughts.

The Blues Deluxe is a good amp but, as has been noted by a lot of folks, it has problems. I think very few people could love this amp without mods of one form or another.

Fromel Electronics is selling a 'Supreme Mod Kit' for $90 consisting of nothing more than $35 worth of components and a promise that the "classic Fender tone is released through these changes" (and a voided warranty, of course :D ). It is strange then that most of those changes are designed to head off hardware problems that haven't occurred yet and do not have anything to do with tone.

And there are lots of other crazy mods suggested elsewhere online. But the mods outlined by BlueSky on this thread quite simply are all that any Fender Blues Deluxe need. Thanks again.

By the way, I'm thinking of doing Justin Holton's "resistor sag" mod. Anyone here done that?


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