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Post subject: Weber Signature Series > or < reissue Jensens?
Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:55 pm
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I've got a '59 Bassman LTD with 4 x 10" Jensen P12R speakers. Are the Weber Sig Series better or about the same as what's in there now?

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Post subject: Re: Weber Signature Series > or < reissue Jensens?
Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:35 pm
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I don't know if they are better or not, but the Alnico Signature 10S speakers that are in my Weber 5F6A clone sound quite sweet to me. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Weber Signature Series > or < reissue Jensens?
Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:34 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
I don't know if they are better or not, but the Alnico Signature 10S speakers that are in my Weber 5F6A clone sound quite sweet to me. :wink:


+1

I'd put my money on the Weber's.

I've never been a big fan of "Fiat".

:lol:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Weber Signature Series > or < reissue Jensens?
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:44 am
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I like them both! I got a Sig 10 ALNICO magnet one in my PJ. It is broke in by now and, sounds great! I probably only had the PJ up to 6 or 7 and, it kept up with some 30 watt Carvins! I have three Jensens, all 8," two are P8R 4 ohms and the other is a ceramic 8 ohm. One of the 4 ohm ones I have in a VC, the other two are boxed up safely. I love the chime that Jensen seems to put out. If you want to buy domestic, then get Weber. Jensen is now made in Italy. To some people that matters. I go for tone myself. Even though I love Fender, I dig Brit amps as well.


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Post subject: Re: Weber Signature Series > or < reissue Jensens?
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:22 am
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Interesting: I emailed Weber today and they recommended two 10A125's and two 10F150's for that amp. My only concern is that those speakers would make it even louder than it already is.

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Post subject: Re: Weber Signature Series > or < reissue Jensens?
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:55 am
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Two 10A125 and two 10F150 are going to be loud. I'd go with four 10A125 if I were going to use Webers. These four alnico are going to be louder than the OEM stuff, but a bit sweeter tone than the ceramics. Those 10F150 are very effeicient and powerful speakers.

I put four 10A125 into a Super Reverb. Very nice tone. I'd say "4" now equals what "5-6" was with the OEM speakers (CTS alnico). The owners likes it. I kept the CTS. :D


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Post subject: Re: Weber Signature Series > or < reissue Jensens?
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:06 am
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Powdered Toast Man wrote:
Interesting: I emailed Weber today and they recommended two 10A125's and two 10F150's for that amp. My only concern is that those speakers would make it even louder than it already is.


If it hasn't been suggested before or you haven't done it on your own, you need to replace the 12AX7 that comes stock in V1 with a 12AY7 like the original 5F6A Bassman. That will drop the gain and volume a little bit and has a sweeter tone than a 12AX7. You can try the E-H 12AY7 or a nice NOS one. My preference is this:

http://www.kcanostubes.com/content/nos-jan-ge-12ay7

I regularly play my Weber 5F6A at home with both channels jumpered (I use a "Y" splitter) and both volumes set at "4". With my Strat/Tele/and Esquire I keep all the other controls on "6" (including Presence) which gives a very nice, not too bright, chimey tone when picked lightly and just starts to break up when I dig in. I use a Fulltone FD-2M with the volume and boost set at 10:00, the gain set at 11:00, and the tone all the way down. The switches are set for flat mids and standard. Gives a really nice break up.

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Post subject: Re: Weber Signature Series > or < reissue Jensens?
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:11 am
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Well hold the phone a moment! I was without a digital multimeter for some time and I finally went and picked one up last night. I measured the test point to be around 67mV. I adjusted that up to between 74-75mV and after just testing it out this morning, wow, what an improvement! I had been really struggling to find a good tone and frankly was beginning to wonder why so many players loved this amp so much. It just sounded rather harsh and brittle on just about all settings at all volumes. I was thinking speakers or tubes or something like that, but apparently it was just biased too cold (which Fender is famous for doing). Seriously, I didn't change anything and now it just sounds warm and sweet - even on my Tele bridge pickup.

I've got new preamp glass in the mail already (Tung-Sol RI's for V1, 2, & 3). The power tubes in there are already quality ones (GT relabeled =C='s).

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Post subject: Re: Weber Signature Series > or < reissue Jensens?
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:19 am
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Powdered Toast Man wrote:
I was thinking speakers or tubes or something like that, but apparently it was just biased too cold (which Fender is famous for doing). Seriously, I didn't change anything and now it just sounds warm and sweet - even on my Tele bridge pickup.


Under-biasing is the most common malady that new Fender tube amps suffer from, which makes it imperative that the idle bias be checked as soon as possible after purchase and adjusted to spec.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Weber Signature Series > or < reissue Jensens?
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:19 pm
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I just can't believe the guy I traded it for had it this way for the 4 years he owned it.

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Post subject: Re: Weber Signature Series > or < reissue Jensens?
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:32 pm
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A majority of the guitarists on this planet have never heard a properly-tuned Bassman re-issue (or an original 5F6-A for that matter). They see the amp in a Frontline catalog, play it in a GC, see Johnny Lang use one on-stage, and think "hey that's cool, I think I'll buy one". Beyond that, they're clueless.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Weber Signature Series > or < reissue Jensens?
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:54 pm
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Powdered Toast Man wrote:
I just can't believe the guy I traded it for had it this way for the 4 years he owned it.


Well, actually the spec for this amp is 60 mV as measured at the test point which at a plate voltage of 476 VDC is about 50% max plate dissipation. Way cold. Even at 75 mV, you may still be cold. You need to measure the plate voltage of the power tubes because that will drop as you increase the cathode current. The Fender test point measures the total of the two power tube's cathode currents, so to calculate the idle plate dissipation you take half the measured cathode current and multiply it by the plate voltage (you actually need to know plate current but cathode current is close enough). My Weber 5F6A clone is biased at 51 mA cathode current (about 48 mA plate current) at a plate voltage of 427 VDC which works out to about 70% max plate dissipation.

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Post subject: Re: Weber Signature Series > or < reissue Jensens?
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:35 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
Powdered Toast Man wrote:
I just can't believe the guy I traded it for had it this way for the 4 years he owned it.


Well, actually the spec for this amp is 60 mV as measured at the test point which at a plate voltage of 476 VDC is about 50% max plate dissipation. Way cold. Even at 75 mV, you may still be cold. You need to measure the plate voltage of the power tubes because that will drop as you increase the cathode current. The Fender test point measures the total of the two power tube's cathode currents, so to calculate the idle plate dissipation you take half the measured cathode current and multiply it by the plate voltage (you actually need to know plate current but cathode current is close enough). My Weber 5F6A clone is biased at 51 mA cathode current (about 48 mA plate current) at a plate voltage of 427 VDC which works out to about 70% max plate dissipation.


This is going to sound like a stupid question, but how does one measure the plate voltage?

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Post subject: Re: Weber Signature Series > or < reissue Jensens?
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:56 pm
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Powdered Toast Man wrote:
This is going to sound like a stupid question, but how does one measure the plate voltage?


:shock:

If you don't know, then you didn't properly set your amp's idle bias.

Find a tech. A trained professional.

:?

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Weber Signature Series > or < reissue Jensens?
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:00 pm
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Powdered Toast Man wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
Powdered Toast Man wrote:
I just can't believe the guy I traded it for had it this way for the 4 years he owned it.


Well, actually the spec for this amp is 60 mV as measured at the test point which at a plate voltage of 476 VDC is about 50% max plate dissipation. Way cold. Even at 75 mV, you may still be cold. You need to measure the plate voltage of the power tubes because that will drop as you increase the cathode current. The Fender test point measures the total of the two power tube's cathode currents, so to calculate the idle plate dissipation you take half the measured cathode current and multiply it by the plate voltage (you actually need to know plate current but cathode current is close enough). My Weber 5F6A clone is biased at 51 mA cathode current (about 48 mA plate current) at a plate voltage of 427 VDC which works out to about 70% max plate dissipation.


This is going to sound like a stupid question, but how does one measure the plate voltage?


The hard way is by using your DVM to measure from pin 3 of each 6L6GC to ground. This exposes you directly to 470 VDC.

The easy and safe way is to use a bias probe like this:

http://www.amp-head.com/product_info.ph ... ucts_id=70

It lets you measure cathode current and plate voltage for EACH tube allowing you to see how balanced they are.

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