It is currently Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:27 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Post subject: Tube origins....???
Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:56 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:28 pm
Posts: 53
Location: Cow Pens Island, NJ (USA)
I know, at least a few years back that most all Groove Tubes were re-branded Sovtek's or Chinese manufacture.....can I assume that is still the case today....?

JJ Tesla or I believe they just go by JJ these days.....are these also re-branded Russian and Chinese tubes, or are they manufactured by JJ at their own facility.....?

_________________
Image
American Standard Strat
American Standard Tele
Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Fulltone RTO
Boss TU-3


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Tube origins....???
Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:43 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
http://www.jj-electronic.com/

_________________
Bill

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Tube origins....???
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:55 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 9640
Location: Indiana
GT uses Sovtek, EH, Tung Sol, Chinese, and some other tubes that are made exclusively for GT. The GT-GE tubes were made in the USA by GT themselves, using the original GE equipment from Owensboro KY, using many of the original components from the original suppliers. And some GT tubes that are the "S" versions are made in the JJ factory exclusively for GT, not relabeled JJs. There is no such thing as "JJ Tesla", there was never any such company. The only relation is that JJ bought some equipment from the old Tesla factory after Tesla stopped making the 12AX7. The tubes of the two companies are not the same, and there was no overlap in production, two totally different tubes made by two totally different companies. As bluesky636 indicated, JJ makes their own tubes in Slovakia (Slovak Republic).

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Tube origins....???
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:47 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:28 pm
Posts: 53
Location: Cow Pens Island, NJ (USA)
Thanks for the information....

I do recall a while back reading something about GT buying GE's old tube manufacturing equipment, and re-starting production of American made tubes.....

Got all JJ's running in my Blues Jr. for the last few years, they seem to be pretty good, although nothing beats a nice matched set of NOS RCA Black Plates......

_________________
Image
American Standard Strat
American Standard Tele
Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Fulltone RTO
Boss TU-3


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Tube origins....???
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:31 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 6544
JJ is the current manufacturer name, that started out as Tesla (Czechoslovakia). I believe the plants are in modern day Slovakia (post Gorbachev).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_(company)


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Tube origins....???
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:38 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:53 pm
Posts: 2252
Location: Harvard IL
Concur on the GT info. I have an early matched set of those 6L6 GT GE tubes. They sound very similar to my NOS GE's. Also have a matched pair of the early GT 6L6 S tubes. The"S" tubes are strong and great rock & roll tubes in BF amps. The 6L6 "S" tubes are kind of a mix of a 7581 and a 5881. Can't testify about the recent GT's. Actually, I use those GT's as a reference to NOS tubes and when I don't want to burn the NOS guys. The GT's just don't seem to drift on the bias. They have been very solid!!! Also use a couple of GT SAG 12AT7 and 12AX7's for PI testing. Art.....My Bad, thought I was on the vintage amp forum!!!!

_________________
None of Us are free, if One of Us is chained !


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Tube origins....???
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:41 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
aclempoppi wrote:
My Bad, thought I was on the vintage amp forum!!!!


Not an issue. Discussions about tubes (NOS and contemporary) are just as apropos for modern and re-issue amps.

8)

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Tube origins....???
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:12 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 6544
" JJ Tesla or I believe they just go by JJ these days.....are these also re-branded Russian and Chinese tubes, or are they manufactured by JJ at their own facility.....? "


Sorry about my post on JJ/tesla yaddy-yaddy. You obviously knew this. :lol:

Companies like New Sensor, Sovtek, GT, TAD, and others are "re-branders." They do not not make tubes or source from one manufacturers. You need to know internal tube construction and cryptic cryllic or oddball Chinese markings to know specific origin of any of their tubes.

I've noticed that nearly all Russian made tube have this solid saucer-shaped getter cup. The bigger, flatter ones, in output tubes, are usually Reflekor or Svetlana in origin.

The smaller, more angled ones are Kaluga or Voskhod in origin. Voskhod have this very distinctive "Rocket" logo (as many of their tubes did go into ICBM and defensive missiles). It sometimes can be seen under the GT or other re-brander logos.

http://www.arrakis.es/~igapop/images/Voshod.gif

FWIW.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Tube origins....???
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:25 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:45 pm
Posts: 852
Location: SoCal323
Also, one thing to note is that even though most tubes are made in either China, Russia, or Czech republic, it is worth to note that all the different tube dealers (i.e. groove tubes, e.h., tung sol, etc) all request different specs for the tubes. So even if lets say you have a g.t or an e.h. or a sovtek that are made in Russia, they are definately not the same.

_________________
Its a lifestyle.....

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Tube origins....???
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:30 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 9640
Location: Indiana
BMW2002Ti wrote:
JJ is the current manufacturer name, that started out as Tesla ...


No, Tesla and JJ are two separate companies. The link that you provided has no info about Tesla and JJ being the same company, and of course they are not. The JJ site also has no mention of Tesla. JJ didn't even start producing tubes until '94, according to their own site, and this is long after Tesla stopped producing 12AX7 and sold the equipment to JJ. Tesla Electron Tubes company still exists, no association with JJ. The misnomer "JJ/Tesla" is simply a myth/fraud, apparently used as hype to sell tubes. You would think that JJ themselves would at least mention Tesla if there were any such association. :wink:

http://www.jacmusic.com/tesla/tesla-jj.html

http://www.jj-electronic.sk/

http://www.electron-tubes.cz/about-the-company-tesla-electrontubes-s-r-o/

BTW, New Sensor does not label or relabel tubes, they are only a distributor, for mostly the Russian made tubes such as EH, Sovtek, Tung Sol, Svetlana (newly acquired name). And Sovtek is not a relabeled tube, it is a brand, and they are made in Russia and labeled at the factory as such.

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Tube origins....???
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:27 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:50 pm
Posts: 1339
Location: Denver, CO, USA
What shimmilou said. Tesla was a very highly regarded manufacturer and NOS Tesla tubes sell for big bucks. A certain US retailer promoted the JJ/Tesla idea to lend JJ some of Tesla's cachet, but the only connection is that JJ bought some of Tesla's old manufacturing equipment long after Tesla shut down. The tubes aren't the same (though JJ is a fine manufacturer in their own right).

Many sources say that the idea that the GT "GE" tubes were manufactured entirely in the US entirely on old GE machines is a bit of a myth promoted by GT. GT said they bought an entire defunct production system from GE and implied that they were making the tubes head to toe in California, but most reports are that the internal metal parts were all made and pre-assembled outside the US and that GT simply added the mica spacers, welded the internal internal assmbly to the tube pins, stuffed them into the glass tubes, evacuated and flashed them. So "final assembly in the USA using imported working parts" rather than "fully made in the USA".

Even if the metal components really were made in the USA, one of the key factors in the superiority of old US tubes was the special coatings apllied to the cathodes, anodes, and heaters which improved the electrically performance of those parts. (That's why black plates are so highly regarded -- the coatings weren't just cosmetic). Also the special red lead coatings on the pins where they pass though the glass bases of the tubes to create air-tight seals as the glass and pins expand/contract at different rates. Those coatings were a witch's brew of heavy metals and other toxic stuff and they were made for GE, RCA, Tung-Sol, etc by independent chemical companies who specialized in serving the tube industry. When you hear about the toxic waste from making tubes, that's largely what people are talking about. (Mercury in the flashing is another issue, but fluorescent tubes with large amounts of mercury continued to be made in the US long after audio tube production shut down.)

GE may possibly have owned some of those chemical companies as subsidiaries, but GT din't buy the secrets of the compositions of those formulas or the production facilities to make them. So even if the metal components were made and assembled in the US, the coatings came from the offshore chemical companies that provide the coatings used by the offshore manufacturers.

(I'm not dissing the GT GE's -- they're fine tubes, the closest to NOS available, and sound pretty similar to the old GEs, but they aren't exactly the same.)


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Tube origins....???
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:33 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 9640
Location: Indiana
GT actually claimed "90% Made in the USA", leaving themselves some wiggle room. It seems that they can "legally" claim made in the USA, but you are correct, some part at least is foreign made/assembled. Something similar to the "Made in USA" amps that have foreign parts in them. :(

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Tube origins....???
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:30 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:53 pm
Posts: 2252
Location: Harvard IL
Just wondering what your experiences are with the recent crop of GT's(power tubes) ? I ask, because last year a young man wanted his '65 Bandmaster retubed with GT GE power tubes. My experience was that, I had to reject two sets. The first pair had a DOA tube, the second pair was way out of spec for an acceptable matched pair. Art

_________________
None of Us are free, if One of Us is chained !


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Tube origins....???
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:21 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 9640
Location: Indiana
I have installed new GTs in several dozen amps over the last several years, including several of my own, and have not had one problem with output tubes. Many of these amps are on tour now, and have been for years, no problems. I have had a very few GT preamp tubes that were noisy, microphonic or otherwise unacceptable. Of course I buy from dealers that pack and ship the tubes in a well protected manner. The only problems that I've had with GTs, including output and preamp, were those installed at the factory in new amps, a problem not exclusive to GT either. UPS is horrible, and it's rare to get a package that isn't damaged. Some suppliers refuse to use UPS and use Fed Ex instead, or at least offer the option, which I appreciate. The last time that I bought from the GC warehouse, the package was severely damaged, and the GT carton was even smashed, yet the new quad worked perfectly despite the piss-poor packing and handling.

I do realize that any type of tubes can have their duds, but in my experience GTs have a very low failure rate compared to any other type. The handling can make all of the difference. Consider that GT tests and labels the tubes, weeding out the weaker ones, increasing the odds of getting good tubes. Lots of padding in the packaging will insure receiving good tubes. Not to out your source, and who knows how they were packed when they received the tubes, but how was the packing for your tubes? It is hard to see the failure rates as a whole, and when you only deal with a few tubes and they are faulty, I can see why some people might get the wrong impression. I am not a GT snob by any means, and regularly use other types, including the same brands that GT uses. Of course I can test my own tubes and match them using my Eico 667, which I do to save the customer a few bucks when requested. I am sure that my testing isn't nearly as thorough as GT though.

As you can see, the packing from GC warehouse was lame, and I will not buy from them again because of it, even though the tubes were fine ( I still buy from GC, if I can see the tubes in the store). Testimony to GT quality.
Image

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Tube origins....???
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:24 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:53 pm
Posts: 2252
Location: Harvard IL
Yeah Shimmy, my tubes came via UPS. So maybe that was the problem. Art

_________________
None of Us are free, if One of Us is chained !


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: