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Post subject: Re: Red Knob Dual Showman "The Wedge" Cabinet
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:54 pm
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dshalfstack wrote:
Thanks. I measured each jack seperately. Both measured 7.3 ohms. See the pic below. Looks like they are simply wired in series together. Any ideas?

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Also, concerning the speaker question, I understand that my existing speakers are Eminence speakers manufactured in 87. I had assumed that in the current lineup of Eminence speakers (speakers sold today) there would be one similar to these speakers as far as tonality.
Perhaps not, or perhaps I'm not asking the question clearly??


No, actually the jacks are wired in parallel. Perhaps the cab was modified at some point in the past. Having the two jacks in parallel serves no useful purpose that I can think of. It looks like there is a name plate or something in the jack mount housing. What does it say?

Your question about speaker tone was perfectly clear. Your speakers are 25 years old. Without their exact specs to compare to modern speakers, there is no way to match them to anything without listening.

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Post subject: Re: Red Knob Dual Showman "The Wedge" Cabinet
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:55 pm
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Art1 wrote:
dshalfstack wrote:
Sorry for the silly question but I seriously do not know. What is the purpose of the two jacks on the back of the cabinet? Does it matter which one is used if it is the only cabinet hooked to the amp?

Also, what eminence speaker in their current lineup would come close to matching the tone of this cabinet?


Funny because Fender did this with all their heads. They are ALL external speakers where a head is concerned. But they saved money by using the same backplate as the combo amps. You need to have one cabinet plugged in the "Main Speaker" (center jack) and the other in either the Series or Parallel and set the Impedance switch accordingly.

Art


The OP was referring to the two jacks on the back of the speaker cabinet.

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Post subject: Re: Red Knob Dual Showman "The Wedge" Cabinet
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:39 pm
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"Having the two jacks in parallel serves no useful purpose that I can think of."

Parallel jacks on speaker cabs are very common, and their purpose is to allow daisy-chaining cabs together. Amp to one jack, then a cable from the other jack to a second cab. Pointless/useless if the amp has its own parallel output jacks -- but lots of amps don't have parallel jacks. Two of my amps each have a single 4 ohm jack + a single 8 ohm jack + a single 16 ohm jack -- when I want to drive multiple cabs I have to daisy-chain the cabs (or use a parallel junction box or a Y-cord if I want to run a couple of my single-input cabs).

"Does it matter which one is used if it is the only cabinet hooked to the amp?"

No, you can use either one. Same for daisy-chaining -- you can use either jack as the input and then use the remaining one as the output.

If you're hyper-paranoid about the possibility of a solder joint going bad and presenting an open load to the amp, using the jack that's connected to the speakers eliminates two solder joints. But that's the only difference.


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Post subject: Re: Red Knob Dual Showman "The Wedge" Cabinet
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:47 pm
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strayedstrater wrote:
Parallel jacks on speaker cabs are very common, and their purpose is to allow daisy-chaining cabs together. Amp to one jack, then a cable from the other jack to a second cab.


+1

Most modern PA/SR speaker systems also have this feature -- either dual/parallel speakon connectors or dual/parallel 1/4" phone jacks (some have both wiring options).

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Red Knob Dual Showman "The Wedge" Cabinet
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:21 am
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Regarding speakers, Eminence's Legend 1218 and Legend 1258 are their models that are closest to their current "Fender Special Design" OEM speakers. Like Bluesky636 said it's hard to say how close either one is to the stuff they were making 20 years ago, but they both sound "Fender-y" and should compliment your existing speakers well. The 1258 has a 1.5" voice coil and 75 watt power handling, the 1218 has a 2" coil and 150 watt rating. The 1258 is probably closer to your Wedge's speakers.

BTW, that Wedge cab is very cool. I used to have a Genz-Benz G-Flex 212 with a V-baffle like that and it really does broaden dispersion and lessen the hot spot directly in front of the cab.


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Post subject: Re: Red Knob Dual Showman "The Wedge" Cabinet
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:23 am
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strayedstrater wrote:
"Having the two jacks in parallel serves no useful purpose that I can think of."

Parallel jacks on speaker cabs are very common, and their purpose is to allow daisy-chaining cabs together. Amp to one jack, then a cable from the other jack to a second cab. Pointless/useless if the amp has its own parallel output jacks -- but lots of amps don't have parallel jacks. Two of my amps each have a single 4 ohm jack + a single 8 ohm jack + a single 16 ohm jack -- when I want to drive multiple cabs I have to daisy-chain the cabs (or use a parallel junction box or a Y-cord if I want to run a couple of my single-input cabs).

"Does it matter which one is used if it is the only cabinet hooked to the amp?"

No, you can use either one. Same for daisy-chaining -- you can use either jack as the input and then use the remaining one as the output.

If you're hyper-paranoid about the possibility of a solder joint going bad and presenting an open load to the amp, using the jack that's connected to the speakers eliminates two solder joints. But that's the only difference.


Ok, that makes sense.

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Post subject: Re: Red Knob Dual Showman "The Wedge" Cabinet
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:49 am
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"Parallel jacks on speaker cabs are very common, and their purpose is to allow daisy-chaining cabs together. Amp to one jack, then a cable from the other jack to a second cab. Pointless/useless if the amp has its own parallel output jacks -- but lots of amps don't have parallel jacks. Two of my amps each have a single 4 ohm jack + a single 8 ohm jack + a single 16 ohm jack -- when I want to drive multiple cabs I have to daisy-chain the cabs (or use a parallel junction box or a Y-cord if I want to run a couple of my single-input cabs)."

Very helpful - thanks! Just out of curiosity, if I were to daisychain with another 8ohm cabinet would I set the impedence to 4 ohms because they are operating in parrallel? I wouldn't actually do this because I have the jacks on the back of the amp.


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Post subject: Re: Red Knob Dual Showman "The Wedge" Cabinet
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:09 am
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strayedstrater wrote:
Regarding speakers, Eminence's Legend 1218 and Legend 1258 are their models that are closest to their current "Fender Special Design" OEM speakers. Like Bluesky636 said it's hard to say how close either one is to the stuff they were making 20 years ago, but they both sound "Fender-y" and should compliment your existing speakers well. The 1258 has a 1.5" voice coil and 75 watt power handling, the 1218 has a 2" coil and 150 watt rating. The 1258 is probably closer to your Wedge's speakers.

BTW, that Wedge cab is very cool. I used to have a Genz-Benz G-Flex 212 with a V-baffle like that and it really does broaden dispersion and lessen the hot spot directly in front of the cab.


Thank you for the insight. I've got a lot of research to do concerning speakers. There are sooooo many choices its difficult to start narrowing down what I'm looking for. Should be fun.

Concerning the cabinet - thanks. I actually like my amp setup. I realize the red knob fenders get frowned upon but I like my tone. That being said, I'm not a big fan of the natural distortion sound. Very low gain sounds good but going much past 4 or 5 it gets too fuzzy for my ears. I use pedals for most of my dirt and primarily use the clean channel. Also (and I can't really complain about this) it is a wicked loud amp. Even set on the 25watt output (vs. the 100 watt) it is crazy loud. Jamming with the guys, it never goes above 2 on the volume.


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Post subject: Re: Red Knob Dual Showman "The Wedge" Cabinet
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:12 am
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"if I were to daisychain with another 8ohm cabinet would I set the impedence to 4 ohms because they are operating in parrallel?"

Yes, that's correct.

Using the amp jacks with two 8 ohm cabs, you can use the main jack + parallel jack and set the impedance switch to 4 ohms, or you can use the main + series jack and set the switch to 16 ohms.

In theory there's a subtle tonal/response difference with series vs parallel (more noticeable if you're using speakers that sound different from each other, less noticeable if they're similar/identical speakers), and some people claim that "using all the wire in the transformer by using the highest impedance tap sounds better" (although there's no theoretical basis for that, and most knowledgeable people say it's a myth). With two 8 ohm cabs and the Red Knob's uncommon feature of series output, you'll have the option to easily experiment with that and see what your ears hear.

Connecting the cabs in parallel is safer. In series, if someone trips over the speaker cable plugged into the main jack and unplugs it, your amp will suddenly see an open circuit and might blow the output transformer (if you were using two 1x12's and one of the speakers blows, that would create the same open circuit situation). In parallel, if one cab gets disconnected the other cab still works and the amp just sees a mild impedance mismatch. The tonal differences (if any) are subtle enough that you'd never notice series vs parallel while playing with a band, so as a general rule it's better to use parallel connections. The series jack is mostly there so you can use two 4 ohm cabs without having an impedance mismatch. But as long as you've got the series feature you might as well try it at home or in the studio where you might notice the differences and where there's less risk of mishap.


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Post subject: Re: Red Knob Dual Showman "The Wedge" Cabinet
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:33 am
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bluesky636 wrote:
Art1 wrote:
dshalfstack wrote:
Sorry for the silly question but I seriously do not know. What is the purpose of the two jacks on the back of the cabinet? Does it matter which one is used if it is the only cabinet hooked to the amp?

Also, what eminence speaker in their current lineup would come close to matching the tone of this cabinet?


Funny because Fender did this with all their heads. They are ALL external speakers where a head is concerned. But they saved money by using the same backplate as the combo amps. You need to have one cabinet plugged in the "Main Speaker" (center jack) and the other in either the Series or Parallel and set the Impedance switch accordingly.

Art


The OP was referring to the two jacks on the back of the speaker cabinet.


He did, didn't he. That'll teach me to read things twice.

Art


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Post subject: Re: Red Knob Dual Showman "The Wedge" Cabinet
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:55 am
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Art1 wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
Art1 wrote:
Funny because Fender did this with all their heads. They are ALL external speakers where a head is concerned. But they saved money by using the same backplate as the combo amps. You need to have one cabinet plugged in the "Main Speaker" (center jack) and the other in either the Series or Parallel and set the Impedance switch accordingly.

Art


The OP was referring to the two jacks on the back of the speaker cabinet.


He did, didn't he. That'll teach me to read things twice.

Art


Heck, I have to read things several times before I figure out what is being talked about. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Red Knob Dual Showman "The Wedge" Cabinet
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:42 pm
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strayedstrater wrote:
"if I were to daisychain with another 8ohm cabinet would I set the impedence to 4 ohms because they are operating in parrallel?"

Yes, that's correct.

Using the amp jacks with two 8 ohm cabs, you can use the main jack + parallel jack and set the impedance switch to 4 ohms, or you can use the main + series jack and set the switch to 16 ohms.

In theory there's a subtle tonal/response difference with series vs parallel (more noticeable if you're using speakers that sound different from each other, less noticeable if they're similar/identical speakers), and some people claim that "using all the wire in the transformer by using the highest impedance tap sounds better" (although there's no theoretical basis for that, and most knowledgeable people say it's a myth). With two 8 ohm cabs and the Red Knob's uncommon feature of series output, you'll have the option to easily experiment with that and see what your ears hear.

Connecting the cabs in parallel is safer. In series, if someone trips over the speaker cable plugged into the main jack and unplugs it, your amp will suddenly see an open circuit and might blow the output transformer (if you were using two 1x12's and one of the speakers blows, that would create the same open circuit situation). In parallel, if one cab gets disconnected the other cab still works and the amp just sees a mild impedance mismatch. The tonal differences (if any) are subtle enough that you'd never notice series vs parallel while playing with a band, so as a general rule it's better to use parallel connections. The series jack is mostly there so you can use two 4 ohm cabs without having an impedance mismatch. But as long as you've got the series feature you might as well try it at home or in the studio where you might notice the differences and where there's less risk of mishap.



This is great info. I appreciate everyone's time & input to answering my questions.
This is a great forum :D

Another question for a forum novice...I'm assuming it would be appropriate to start a new thread if I had particular questions concerning speakers/wiring/construction for my potential cabinet project??


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Post subject: Re: Red Knob Dual Showman "The Wedge" Cabinet
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:30 pm
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"I'm assuming it would be appropriate to start a new thread if I had particular questions concerning speakers/wiring/construction for my potential cabinet project??"

Yes, that's perfectly appropriate. Threads often wander in multiple directions and that's fine, but starting new threads for independent topics broadens the number of potential reponses and makes it easier to for others to find information. Bluesky636 and Retroverbial can answer any amp/cab question you throw at them, but other people who may have something to contribute to the topic will never know you're asking about cab construction/wiring in this thread, and other people who also have questions about cab construction/wiring will never look for answers in a thread that they think is just about Red Knobs & Wedges.


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Post subject: Re: Red Knob Dual Showman "The Wedge" Cabinet
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:44 pm
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strayedstrater wrote:
"I'm assuming it would be appropriate to start a new thread if I had particular questions concerning speakers/wiring/construction for my potential cabinet project??"

Yes, that's perfectly appropriate. Threads often wander in multiple directions and that's fine, but starting new threads for independent topics broadens the number of potential reponses and makes it easier to for others to find information. Bluesky636 and Retroverbial can answer any amp/cab question you throw at them, but other people who may have something to contribute to the topic will never know you're asking about cab construction/wiring in this thread, and other people who also have questions about cab construction/wiring will never look for answers in a thread that they think is just about Red Knobs & Wedges.


+1

By all means, start a new thread.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Red Knob Dual Showman "The Wedge" Cabinet
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:04 am
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That sir is a parallel circuit. So if the cabinet with that dual jack is 8 ohms and you plug another 8 ohm cabinet into that the adjacent jack you will need you amp selector switch to to be 4 ohms.

The two 8 ohm cabinets paralleled will give 4 ohms total to the amp head.

But as was indicated earlier by the others please use the multi-meter to verify. Connect your new 8 ohm cabinet to the old cabinet and the just plug a jack cord into the old cabinet and measure the impedance between the tip and shield of the jack cord, and be sure not to touch the meter lead tips with your hands as your skin adds resistance.

As for the speakers.. That will be personal preference. I have HRD 4x10 (eminence speakers) and I built a 2x12 cabinet with ET65 WGS (warehouse guitar speakers) and the amp has never sounded better in my opinion.

Jake


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