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Post subject: 212 Cabinet for the Fender Blues Junior
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:09 am
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Hello,
I am sufficiently lost in the speaker wattage/ Ohm about a speaker cabinet to really need assistance. I wish to make a 212 cabinet for the Blues Jr., an older American made.
I have a Cannabis Rex that I used in the combo which is 8 Ohm and 50 Watt. I've read that running an amp into speakers that are a greater wattage can cause the amp to be destroyed. The exact reason was not clear. Also I have read that the speakers in a cab should be the same wattage, again the reason was not clear. Am I hurting the amp by using the 50 Watt speaker?
What would be the negative consequences of say running a 50 Watt speaker in series or parallel with say a 25 Watt speaker? Some insight would also be helpful. Thanks for any assistance!
Glenn


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Post subject: Re: 212 Cabinet for the Fender Blues Junior
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:44 am
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glennc717 wrote:
Hello,
I am sufficiently lost in the speaker wattage/ Ohm about a speaker cabinet to really need assistance. I wish to make a 212 cabinet for the Blues Jr., an older American made.
I have a Cannabis Rex that I used in the combo which is 8 Ohm and 50 Watt. I've read that running an amp into speakers that are a greater wattage can cause the amp to be destroyed. The exact reason was not clear. Also I have read that the speakers in a cab should be the same wattage, again the reason was not clear. Am I hurting the amp by using the 50 Watt speaker?
What would be the negative consequences of say running a 50 Watt speaker in series or parallel with say a 25 Watt speaker? Some insight would also be helpful. Thanks for any assistance!
Glenn



Are you going to make an amp head our of the Blues JR?
or disconnect the speaker in the combo Blues JR and then connect to the 2x12?
You will need to have a 4 ohm Blues Jr output for two 8 ohm speakers
or an 8 ohm Blues Jr output for two 16 ohm speakers.
Hope this helps.
Toppscore :)

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Post subject: Re: 212 Cabinet for the Fender Blues Junior
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:03 am
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Toppscore wrote:
glennc717 wrote:
Hello,
Are you going to make an amp head our of the Blues JR?
or disconnect the speaker in the combo Blues JR and then connect to the 2x12?
You will need to have a 4 ohm Blues Jr output for two 8 ohm speakers
or an 8 ohm Blues Jr output for two 16 ohm speakers.
Hope this helps.
Toppscore :)


Hello Toppscore,
Initially I will leave the amp in the combo box. The Blues Jr. has one 8 Ohm output so that means I will have to run them in series for 16 Ohm and there goes the information I am currently unable to understand. Thanks!
Glenn


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Post subject: Re: 212 Cabinet for the Fender Blues Junior
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:42 am
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glennc717 wrote:
Toppscore wrote:
glennc717 wrote:
Hello,
Are you going to make an amp head our of the Blues JR?
or disconnect the speaker in the combo Blues JR and then connect to the 2x12?
You will need to have a 4 ohm Blues Jr output for two 8 ohm speakers
or an 8 ohm Blues Jr output for two 16 ohm speakers.
Hope this helps.
Toppscore :)


Hello Toppscore,
Initially I will leave the amp in the combo box. The Blues Jr. has one 8 Ohm output so that means I will have to run them in series for 16 Ohm and there goes the information I am currently unable to understand. Thanks!
Glenn


I believe in parallel rather than series for 8 ohms into two 16 ohm speakers.

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Post subject: Re: 212 Cabinet for the Fender Blues Junior
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:19 pm
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I believe in parallel rather than series for 8 ohms into two 16 ohm speakers.[/quote]

That is probably better. But I have a 8 ohms speaker already. Thanks for the info and informed opinion!


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Post subject: Re: 212 Cabinet for the Fender Blues Junior
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:20 pm
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glennc717 wrote:
Toppscore wrote:
glennc717 wrote:
Hello,
Are you going to make an amp head our of the Blues JR?
or disconnect the speaker in the combo Blues JR and then connect to the 2x12?
You will need to have a 4 ohm Blues Jr output for two 8 ohm speakers
or an 8 ohm Blues Jr output for two 16 ohm speakers.
Hope this helps.
Toppscore :)


Hello Toppscore,
Initially I will leave the amp in the combo box. The Blues Jr. has one 8 Ohm output so that means I will have to run them in series for 16 Ohm and there goes the information I am currently unable to understand. Thanks!
Glenn


2 x 8ohm in series = 16 ohm.
2 x 8ohm in parallel = 4 ohm.

What you need are two 16 ohm speakers wired in parallel = 8 ohm.

Or, run the two 8ohm speakers in parallel - 4 ohms and use an impedance matching device such as this... https://taweber.powweb.com/store/zmatch.htm This one just happens to have a nifty Line output to keep your sound engineer happy :D

Art


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Post subject: Re: 212 Cabinet for the Fender Blues Junior
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:35 pm
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2 x 8ohm in series = 16 ohm.
2 x 8ohm in parallel = 4 ohm.

What you need are two 16 ohm speakers wired in parallel = 8 ohm.

Or, run the two 8ohm speakers in parallel - 4 ohms and use an impedance matching device such as this... https://taweber.powweb.com/store/zmatch.htm This one just happens to have a nifty Line output to keep your sound engineer happy :D

Art[/quote]

Hello Art,
That is a cool device. But for the price I might as well buy the correct speaker, any ideas about the wattage matching issue?
Thanks
Glenn


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Post subject: Re: 212 Cabinet for the Fender Blues Junior
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:59 pm
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He has an 8 ohm amp.
Needs two 16 ohm speakers in parallel, Right?
Should be easy and cheaper to get 16 ohm speakers, IMHO.

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Post subject: Re: 212 Cabinet for the Fender Blues Junior
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:04 pm
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Some examples:
For instance: Output rating of the amp is 8 ohm and you'd want to build a 2x12 cab.
In that case you would want to get 2 16 ohm speakers. These connected in parallel will give the optimum 8 ohms.

Here's another one: Speaker output rated at 16 ohm and you want to hook up a 4x12 cab. In that case, get 4 16 ohm speakers and hook them up 2-by-2 (2 parallel branches of 2 series-connected speakers).

In general: connecting the speakers in series adds the two impedances together. Connecting them in parallel essentially halfs the impedance (if the two have the same impedance individually)

With this you can mix-and-match to get the proper ohmage for your amp.

Mixing different impedances requires more advanced understanding of impedances and speaker efficiency ratings. Otherwise you could end up with one speaker completely overpowering another.

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Post subject: Re: 212 Cabinet for the Fender Blues Junior
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:34 pm
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glennc717 wrote:
2 x 8ohm in series = 16 ohm.
2 x 8ohm in parallel = 4 ohm.

What you need are two 16 ohm speakers wired in parallel = 8 ohm.

Or, run the two 8ohm speakers in parallel - 4 ohms and use an impedance matching device such as this... https://taweber.powweb.com/store/zmatch.htm This one just happens to have a nifty Line output to keep your sound engineer happy :D

Art


Hello Art,
That is a cool device. But for the price I might as well buy the correct speaker, any ideas about the wattage matching issue?
Thanks
Glenn[/quote]

Each speaker should be capable of handling the full output of the amp. In your case, I believe that is 15 watts.

So, you need two 16 ohm, 15 watt minimum speakers. Of course if you loose one, the amp will see 16 ohms and put out less power anyhow. But you can safely put 30 watt speakers in there. Shouldn't harm the amp. The speaker that comes with the Blues Junior III is an 8 ohm 50 watt.

Art


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Post subject: Re: 212 Cabinet for the Fender Blues Junior
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:52 pm
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Art1 wrote:
glennc717 wrote:
2 x 8ohm in series = 16 ohm.
2 x 8ohm in parallel = 4 ohm.

What you need are two 16 ohm speakers wired in parallel = 8 ohm.

Or, run the two 8ohm speakers in parallel - 4 ohms and use an impedance matching device such as this... https://taweber.powweb.com/store/zmatch.htm This one just happens to have a nifty Line output to keep your sound engineer happy :D

Art


Hello Art,
That is a cool device. But for the price I might as well buy the correct speaker, any ideas about the wattage matching issue?

I have a Z Matcher and it gives me a lot of flexibility to run any speaker cab with any amp I own. It lets me run my 76 Champ or 5 watt home brew amp with either an 8 or 16 ohm load at a the turn of a dial. It's built like a tank too.
Thanks
Glenn


Each speaker should be capable of handling the full output of the amp. In your case, I believe that is 15 watts.

So, you need two 16 ohm, 15 watt minimum speakers. Of course if you loose one, the amp will see 16 ohms and put out less power anyhow. But you can safely put 30 watt speakers in there. Shouldn't harm the amp. The speaker that comes with the Blues Junior III is an 8 ohm 50 watt.

Art[/quote]

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Post subject: Re: 212 Cabinet for the Fender Blues Junior
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:01 pm
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63supro wrote:
Art1 wrote:
glennc717 wrote:
2 x 8ohm in series = 16 ohm.
2 x 8ohm in parallel = 4 ohm.

What you need are two 16 ohm speakers wired in parallel = 8 ohm.

Or, run the two 8ohm speakers in parallel - 4 ohms and use an impedance matching device such as this... https://taweber.powweb.com/store/zmatch.htm This one just happens to have a nifty Line output to keep your sound engineer happy :D

Art


Hello Art,
That is a cool device. But for the price I might as well buy the correct speaker, any ideas about the wattage matching issue?

I have a Z Matcher and it gives me a lot of flexibility to run any speaker cab with any amp I own. It lets me run my 76 Champ or 5 watt home brew amp with either an 8 or 16 ohm load at a the turn of a dial. It's built like a tank too.
Thanks
Glenn


Each speaker should be capable of handling the full output of the amp. In your case, I believe that is 15 watts.

So, you need two 16 ohm, 15 watt minimum speakers. Of course if you loose one, the amp will see 16 ohms and put out less power anyhow. But you can safely put 30 watt speakers in there. Shouldn't harm the amp. The speaker that comes with the Blues Junior III is an 8 ohm 50 watt.

Art
[/quote]

Hello Art,
Again thanks for your info. Is there a limit about the wattage of the speakers vs the amp. Am getting a 2 Watt Amp and will it handle the 50 Watts? And what happens if the wattage rating of the two speakers are different and is there a limit? Sorry, many questions!
Glenn


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Post subject: Re: 212 Cabinet for the Fender Blues Junior
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:20 pm
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glennc717 wrote:
Hello Art,
Again thanks for your info. Is there a limit about the wattage of the speakers vs the amp. Am getting a 2 Watt Amp and will it handle the 50 Watts? And what happens if the wattage rating of the two speakers are different and is there a limit? Sorry, many questions!
Glenn


Hmmm,

Was discussing this earlier.

1. I thought we were talking about a blues Jr.
2. Are you going to use the old Blues Jr speaker with a 2 watt amp? I wouldn't. That might be waaay to much for a 2 watt amp to push. You might notice some smoke. :shock: Those little amps in your TV are usually 2 watt and sound loud because of the special design speakers.
3. The Blues Jr should easily be able to handle two 30 watt speakers.

Art


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Post subject: Re: 212 Cabinet for the Fender Blues Junior
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:09 pm
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Hmmm,

Was discussing this earlier.

1. I thought we were talking about a blues Jr.
2. Are you going to use the old Blues Jr speaker with a 2 watt amp? I wouldn't. That might be waaay to much for a 2 watt amp to push. You might notice some smoke. :shock: Those little amps in your TV are usually 2 watt and sound loud because of the special design speakers.
3. The Blues Jr should easily be able to handle two 30 watt speakers.

Art[/quote]

Art, we are discussing the imminent future for the Blues Junior. Later I will worry about the 2 Watter. Although I have seen the Lil Night Train pushing a 412 cabinet without seeming problem on Anderton's UK videos. That is why I am trying to learn the subject and it's rules although the suggestions are of course helpful!


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Post subject: Re: 212 Cabinet for the Fender Blues Junior
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:22 pm
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glennc717 wrote:
Hmmm,

Was discussing this earlier.

1. I thought we were talking about a blues Jr.
2. Are you going to use the old Blues Jr speaker with a 2 watt amp? I wouldn't. That might be waaay to much for a 2 watt amp to push. You might notice some smoke. :shock: Those little amps in your TV are usually 2 watt and sound loud because of the special design speakers.
3. The Blues Jr should easily be able to handle two 30 watt speakers.

Art


Art, we are discussing the imminent future for the Blues Junior. Later I will worry about the 2 Watter. Although I have seen the Lil Night Train pushing a 412 cabinet without seeming problem on Anderton's UK videos. That is why I am trying to learn the subject and it's rules although the suggestions are of course helpful![/quote]

I understand completely. I would say go ahead with two 30 watt speakers for the Blues Jr cabinet then. Two 16 ohms wired in parallel for a total of 8 ohms.

Now you just have to figure out what type of tone you want, how soon you want the speakers to "break up" if at all. How heavy do you want them to be etc....
This is where you want to read the specs carefully and talk to others about what you have narrowed it down to.

Art


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