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Post subject: Hot Rod Deluxe 3 now Warm Rod Deluxe 3 and much better
Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:55 am
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After getting my new Hot Rod Deluxe 3 I was disappointed to find that the normal channel was still difficult to adjust for low practice at home, despite Fender claiming this had been improved. Looking at the circuit of the Mk3 and the last versions only a few resistors have changed around V1 to improve it, I should have checked before buying, still the Black Panel and Celestion speaker are good improvements, but how to tame the beast.

The answer for me at least was to replace V1 an ECC83 (12AX7) with an ECC81 (12AT7) Valve or tube, depending on which side of the pond you live. I used a Harma matched pair i.e both halves of the tube are matched, a normal unmatched one is fine too, but I had this lying around from mods to another amp. The beast is tamed, the Gain channel is still good enough for me, maybe not quite as hot, but if you use pedals and mainly the Normal channel, it is much improved, more easy to control with a wider sweep from the volume pot available.

This mod has been mentioned before in this Forum but I could not find it easily so I thought I would add this here for anyone that is interested.

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe 3 now Warm Rod Deluxe 3 and much better
Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:09 am
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That's terrific 6B4G! Often, the right tubes make all the difference, good job. You might try the 12AT7 in the V3 phase-inverter (PI) position, and a 5751 in V1, keeping a 12AX7 in V2 for the drive channel, great combination in my HRDlx I amp. Of course, I try different tubes quite often, so this combination changes. Trying various MB tubes at present. :)

FYI, you used a "balanced" tube for V1. Balanced refers to each half of the "dual-triode" in each preamp tube, each half being very close in strength and response to the other half of the same tube. Typically, balanced tubes are only recommended for PI position, but nothing wrong with using a balanced tube in any position. Most other positions besides the PI, don't really benefit from having a balanced tube, but benefit more from the particular type/brand used.

"Matched" refers to two separate tubes that are close in strength and response to each other, most often referring to output tubes, as in a "matched pair". Balanced and matched tubes are tested and selected for their characteristics from the general population of tubes from production, as there is no way to make them already balanced or matched on existing equipment. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe 3 now Warm Rod Deluxe 3 and much better
Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:22 am
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6B4G, JOC... have you ever used this rectifier? I've built a couple of hi-fi pre-amps & DAC (a long time ago) based around this tube. Raytheon, TS, & Ken-Rad are KILLER tubes.

Ever use one in a DIY guitar amp?

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe 3 now Warm Rod Deluxe 3 and much better
Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:24 am
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Hi BMW2002Ti - 6B4G is a Directly Heated Triode and is what powers my main Hi-Fi system; it's in an amp from the 1980's from a long gone British Manufacturer called Audio Innovations; 7.5 Watts per Channel in a Dual Mono configuration. I love this amp and have never found anything close to it; it drives some USA speakers, Snell Type C's from the same period. This combination is awesome, so clear and detailed, never dull and boring; never tire of listening to this system.

Thanks for the input shimmilou - I did know about the balanced Tube, it was one I had lying around, but for those that don't know it's good information. I have purchased some more tubes recently so will experiment some more on your suggestions which are excellent. It's well worth paying out a few £'s ($'s) for some spares and experimenting. I have to admit, for me I like this amp a lot more with the tube change, brand selection does help a lot too, I like the Harma brand that I have been using recently. This mod is easy to do and easily reversible if you don't like it.

I have a Marshall Class 5, which is also a great amp, but I had to change the circuit by adding capacitors and changing resistors to get that amp sounding how I like it for a Marshall, which is very different to a Fender, nice variation in tones between the two.

Just need to sort out the reverb on my 1976 Silverface Twin, tonight's project, possibly too high plate voltage as suggested by other forum members here. Love this amp, is still my all time favourite, but it only does clean, and very loud at that, hence the other amps.

The HRDLX3 is a good amp, close to classic Fender clean tones, with some nice options on the drive channel, but needed to be calmed down for me. The reverb is good too considering it uses Op amps, but not a touch on the Silverface when it's working right. It's a great design and that's why it is one of the best selling amps in the world by a long way, but it doesn't mean they have it 100% right, the tube changes suggested in this group of posts for some, me included make the amp even better for my needs.

Thanks for adding to my post - very good comments

Cheers


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe 3 now Warm Rod Deluxe 3 and much better
Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:33 am
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FYI... (OT)... I've built two modified Audio Note DAC's (2.xx & 3.xx) and redid a Bruce Moore Luminesence pre-amp utilizing the 6B4G. A great tube.

Have a great 4th! Enjoy your new guitar amp tones & that great hi-fi! (AI has a very good rep, indeed!)... :mrgreen:


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe 3 now Warm Rod Deluxe 3 and much better
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:15 pm
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It apprears we have so many choices when it comes to pre amp tube selection. My Hot Rod Deluxe III is a little too hairy for "bedroom level" applications, despite the claimed improvements. One can gingerly dial in a a volume, but you've gotta bite your tongue the right way, lol. Some have complained of poor tone at low levels too.
After studying countless views in these forums, I decided to apply my own fuzzy logic and see what happens.
All my new pre amp tubes are JJ Tesla. V1 sports a 12AX7 (ECC83 S) Gold Pin, There a claim that a gold pin works well in V1. Some who use a 12AT7 in V1 reckon it sucks the tone out of it. For V2, a standard 12AX7 (ECC83 S). I tried a gold pin yesterday and found it didn't have the warmth of the standard one, very bright too. In the Phase inverter V3, I went for a gold pin 12AT7 (ECC81 S). This combination seens quite useable with better contol over volume and drive, it feels smoother too.
At the same time I upgraded my power amp tubes to some TAD 6L6GC-STR's, setting the bias to 68mv. In my opinion, fantastic, smooth, creamy, less ice picky up the top end with tighter, smoother bass and mids. And that's all running through the standard Celestion G12P-80.
All changes we make to our equipment are generally quite subtle and you've gotta live with it for a while to fully appreciate the improvement (if any). I found after
a few hours of playing and recording with my ZOOM, I couldn't put the thing down, a very comfortable place to be indeed.
Just to make things interesting, I've now replaced the speaker with an Eminence Cannabis Rex and highly recommend it for HRD use. Can't wait to add my own pedals to the clean channel. And now there's Australia's Own Lorantz 75 watt 12' "Greenback Clone", waiting it's turn. By all reports, they are something else again. I'll live with the current set up for a while, then do a comparison.
I'll now have a look at the way you configure the pre amp tunes. The final decision will be made by my ears, and the "feel".

Like a good mate says "Whadya want on yer Pizza". :D


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe 3 now Warm Rod Deluxe 3 and much better
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:10 pm
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The tube "guts" are still the same. Gold pins really have no added value in guitar amps. You are still plugging them into sockets bought in quantity from the lowest bidder. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe 3 now Warm Rod Deluxe 3 and much better
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:52 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
The tube "guts" are still the same. Gold pins really have no added value in guitar amps. You are still plugging them into sockets bought in quantity from the lowest bidder. :lol:

Good and valid point. There must be something in it however. I could tell, as did a fellow guitar player. Eurotubes have a few gold pin options in their HRD tube kits too :D


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