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Post subject: Supersonic effects loop query?
Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:34 pm
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Hi all.
I currently use a simple volume box in the effect loop of my BDRI. Is the last in the chain in my loop pedals before returning to the pre amp in jack. The pedals in the loop only consist if a DD5, T Rex tonebug Reverb, vol box. And that's it.
I have excellent results with this and it makes the amps volume alot more controllable, and without any loss in tone.
My question is. Am I ok to try/use the same volume box in the pre amp out/in loop of my supersonic twin head without causing damage or putting any components at risk.
Thanks in advance.


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Post subject: Re: Supersonic effects loop query?
Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:39 pm
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Yes, you can use the volume box in the SS loop. However, I find volume boxes to be a waste of money. It is one more item to steal tone from a decent amp. The fewer unnecessary boxes you have in front of an amp or in the loop, the better the amp will sound. A 5751 (especially with a 12AT7 in V3) or 12AY7 in V1 of a BDRI will reduce the gain of the amp and quiet it down as well as make the clean volume control operate in a more linear range of the control. The SS Twin has the ability to reduce the ouput power to 25 watts. If those amps are so loud that you need to use a cheap volume box, then they are the wrong amps for your situation.

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic effects loop query?
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:06 am
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bluesky636 wrote:
If those amps are so loud that you need to use a cheap volume box, then they are the wrong amps for your situation.


But they look so groovy sitting in momma's basement!

:lol:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic effects loop query?
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:21 am
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Cheers bluesky, and fair comment.
I do have a 5751 in V1 of the BDRI. Which does sound fantastic btw.
Regarding the 25w mode on the supersonic. I find that when in the club mode it can sound a tad stifled and lose clarity and note definition a bit, especially in lower registers.
I haven't had the supersonic head long and still learning how the get the best from it and it's little nuances that every amp has. So the volume box won't always be there. But have to keep my rigs versatile to cover different playing situations.


And yes. It does look cool arjay :D


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Post subject: Re: Supersonic effects loop query?
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:23 am
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dc01 wrote:
Cheers bluesky, and fair comment.
I do have a 5751 in V1 of the BDRI. Which does sound fantastic btw.
Regarding the 25w mode on the supersonic. I find that when in the club mode it can sound a tad stifled and lose clarity and note definition a bit, especially in lower registers.
I haven't had the supersonic head long and still learning how the get the best from it and it's little nuances that every amp has. So the volume box won't always be there. But have to keep my rigs versatile to cover different playing situations.


And yes. It does look cool arjay :D


If using a 5751 in V1, swap the 12AX7 in V3 (the phase inverter) for a 12AT7. That will drop the gain even more in the lower sweep of the volume control, but still be quite loud when turned all the way up. Or leave the 12AX7 in V3 and replace the 5751 with a 12AY7 (my favorite) for about the same overall gain.

A volume box is nothing but a metal box containing a pot and two phone jacks. They do not allow you to drive the power tubes harder at lower volume levels as some E-Bay sellers calim. As a passive device consisting of less than $10 in parts, they are a big rip off in my opinion.

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic effects loop query?
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:18 pm
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I totally agree thet they are a rip of for what they are, and i know they dont allow you to drive the tubes harder at lower levels. But for relative small money in the world of guitar,amps,pedals etc., it does give me extra volume versatility for whatever amp im using at any given time without a massive loss or effect on the overall tone.

Diff strokes,diff folkes etc :D


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Post subject: Re: Supersonic effects loop query?
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:40 pm
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Enjoy it for what is is, then. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic effects loop query?
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:18 pm
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The volume box in the loop is to preamp distortion, as an attenuator is to output distortion. The volume box in the loop works like a master volume, allowing preamp distortion at lower volumes.

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic effects loop query?
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:51 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
The volume box in the loop is to preamp distortion, as an attenuator is to output distortion. The volume box in the loop works like a master volume, allowing preamp distortion at lower volumes.


That is the purpose of the BDRI drive channel as well as the Burn channels in the SS amps. Why would someone use a volume box for preamp distortion in a clean channel when so many amps today provide a drive channel with a master volume for that purpose? Seems redundant and useless to me.

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic effects loop query?
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:23 pm
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In the BDRI, you do have a loss of low end on the drive channel as compared to the clean channel. I guess that a volume box can give you something between the clean and drive channels, keeping the low end yet getting some drive from the preamp. But, I'm with you, you can lose some of the clean channel tone using the loop like that. Some people like it that way though.

I think that the volume box would be more versatile in the SS where the loop can be switched on or off, plus it's a tube driven and recovered loop, maybe a better tone than the op amp driven/recovered loop of the BDRI. Can't turn off the loop in the BDRI.

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic effects loop query?
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:21 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
In the BDRI, you do have a loss of low end on the drive channel as compared to the clean channel. I guess that a volume box can give you something between the clean and drive channels, keeping the low end yet getting some drive from the preamp. But, I'm with you, you can lose some of the clean channel tone using the loop like that. Some people like it that way though.

I think that the volume box would be more versatile in the SS where the loop can be switched on or off, plus it's a tube driven and recovered loop, maybe a better tone than the op amp driven/recovered loop of the BDRI. Can't turn off the loop in the BDRI.


There is a reason that the low end is rolled of in the drive channel of the Blues' and Hot Rods. I don't have the book handy, but a good explanation is given in the section on modifying the Hot Rod amps.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/076033 ... 04_s00_i00

You may be right about the tonal impact of a volume box in an SS compared to a BDRI. I still wouldn't use one in either case.

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic effects loop query?
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:04 am
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The SS should have independent send and return volume knobs for your effects loop that you can adjust right down to low volumes, just like your volume pedal would do, (I know my SS Twin does). However switching off the effects loop would put the amp back into the selected channel volume levels so be weary.

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic effects loop query?
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:38 am
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bluesky636 wrote:
shimmilou wrote:
The volume box in the loop is to preamp distortion, as an attenuator is to output distortion. The volume box in the loop works like a master volume, allowing preamp distortion at lower volumes.


That is the purpose of the BDRI drive channel as well as the Burn channels in the SS amps. Why would someone use a volume box for preamp distortion in a clean channel when so many amps today provide a drive channel with a master volume for that purpose? Seems redundant and useless to me.

Reason is the BDRI's drive channel did not give me as much distortion as I wanted without making my ears bleed! I very much like it in the BDRI, and yes, it's $10 worth of parts costing $19....that sure isn't a big deal to me.

I recently bought a new Super Sonic 22, but haven't tried a volume box in it. It's drive channel is all the distortion I'd ever use. I must say, however, that the clean channel volume knob poses a similar issue as that of the BDRI in that it goes from silent to substantial with minimal movement. I'm using a Boss EQ pedal "in the loop" for boosting the signal on either channel for solos by activating the footswitchable feature. Haven't tried it yet, but I've thought about using the EQ pedal/loop configuration in reverse to see if overall volume can be reduced without major tone sucking? (i.e. turn the volume slider of the EQ so that it is a lower volume with the loop activated and then turn the loop off for solos.)

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic effects loop query?
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:42 am
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AaronK wrote:
The SS should have independent send and return volume knobs for your effects loop that you can adjust right down to low volumes, just like your volume pedal would do, (I know my SS Twin does). However switching off the effects loop would put the amp back into the selected channel volume levels so be weary.

True, but the super sonic 22 doesn't.

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic effects loop query?
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:01 pm
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The OP said he had a SS Twin, not a 22. :idea:

You kinda jumped right into the middle of a response for the OP. :lol:

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