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Post subject: Questions on a Princeton Stack
Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 9:43 am
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Hey guys, I'm gearing up to buy an amplifier, I've done a ton of research and the main contender is a 65 Princeton Reverb Reissue with a 1x12 extension cab. But, I wanted to clarify a few things before I commit.


My main question is volume. Is this going to be loud enough for a loud rock band (although we are much more Radiohead than Guns n Roses)?

I recently had the chance to play my friend's 100-watt "The Twin." With the 1/4 power switch on and the gain around 6-7 the sound was perfect, with plenty of room to turn up if for some crazy reason I ever needed to. So if I have this straight, 25 watts through 2 12" speakers= all the volume I need and more.

Is it possible (or even necessary) to get ~20 watts out of a Princeton, say with a new OT/PT? I'll need one anyways so I can run an extension cab with a total impedance of 4 ohms on the amp.

I realize that The Twin has a larger cabinet. I do not know what kind of speakers are installed in that amp. And I don't know if this makes a difference, but I know that The Twin has more tubes. But, is a Princeton running 2 12" speakers in the same ballpark?





I know there are options that are loud enough (or in the case of the Hot Rod Series, way waaaay too loud) right out of the box. As another point of reference, a 4x10 60-watt Deville is too loud with the volume at 4. But, I have two problems.


1) Size. I don't own a vehicle (I bike, walk or take public transit) so something portable is preferable. I'm not taking "The Twin" on the bus if I don't have to. As well I've managed to keep a Blues Jr. at work for lunch hour practice-- but even a DRRI would be too large to keep doing this.


2) Volume (ironically). I have two little little kids (and a wife who values her sleep) and we live in an apartment building that is not entirely sound proof. So, bedroom levels are essential.


So for my situation a Princeton stack seems more suitable than buying a larger amp. I will get much more use out of it; I would loathe a huge amplifier that does not get played daily.




Thanks for running such an informative forum guys and I appreciate any input. I've learned a TON from reading here over the oast few months and this whole set up is largely based on ideas I gathered here.


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Post subject: Re: Questions on a Princeton Stack
Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 1:38 pm
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Answer: it depends.

If you're playing at small clubs and the stage volume is relatively low, yes.
If you're playing at larger clubs and the amp is mic'd and there are wedge monitors to hear your amp, yes.
If you're playing at small clubs with a lot of stage volume from drums and bass, no.
If you're playing at larger clubs without mic'd amps and monitor mixes, no.
If you're playing outdoors, no.

I have a Princeton reverb with a 12" closed back extension cab. Great combo, and sounds fantastic mic'd up with a Sennheiser e906 with the 10" and the 12" speaker. For other gigs, that's why I have the Bandmaster or the Showman, which really only gets used outdoors.

You don't need to mod the output transformer to add an extension cab - you can plug in another 8 ohm cab into the Extension Speaker input and you're fine.

You can get a little more volume out of a PR with a transformer swap, but I have no idea if you can on the reissues, since the PC board in there doesn't encourage modding.

To be safe, I'd suggest the Deluxe Reverb Reissue instead. 22 Watts, 12" vs. 10" speaker, and plenty loud on its own for most small club gigs. 6V6 so it will sound similar to the Princeton.

Forget the Twin. Too much amp for small clubs, and weighs a ton. There's a reason they're so cheap nowadays. Completely different amp than the Princeton. Twins are designed to be clean, loud and no breakup; the whole fun of the Princeton is getting the amp into power tube distortion. Most Twins never breakup, or if they do, it's at ear-splitting volume levels.

You do know the Princeton has a 10", not 12" speaker, right?

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Post subject: Re: Questions on a Princeton Stack
Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 6:10 am
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Why not just move up to a DRRI? Fifteen watts is right on the edge. Like Ned says, it depends. If you're in a loud rock band, a 15 watt practice amp ain't gonna cut it unless the stage volume is managed properly even with and extension cab.

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Post subject: Re: Questions on a Princeton Stack
Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 6:29 am
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If you bought yourself a car, that would solve all of your logistics problems and provide you with significantly more amp options.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Questions on a Princeton Stack
Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 9:30 am
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Yikes. Totally missed that Arjay.

Either get a car, or get your bandmates to pick you up. Also, a Deluxe Reverb isn't that much bigger than a Princeton Reverb, either in size or weight. Wouldnt' want either on the back of a bike.

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Post subject: Re: Questions on a Princeton Stack
Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 9:40 am
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Me too. Or just get a bike trailer. :mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: Questions on a Princeton Stack
Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 12:28 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
If you bought yourself a car, that would solve all of your logistics problems and provide you with significantly more amp options.

Arjay


:lol: Talk about getting my priorities straight. Unfortunately, I just got my first decent paying job last year, and currently gas $ + parking $ + insurance $ + maintenance $ + Toronto traffic > my need or desire for a car

Nedorama, I totally just assumed that I would be installing a 12" right off the bat, didn't mention that. Currently have a Celestion Vintage 30 and would like to complement it with a G12H.

And 63supro if I'm going to get a bike trailer I mean I might as well get a Showman cabinet or two and make the most of it, really.



Thanks for the warm welcome and great advice, this was just what I needed and really shaped my thinking. I'm thinking a higher power head might be what I need especially because I plan to play loud. Get two separate 1x12 speaker cabs, pack the head in a gym bag, and bring either one or both cabs depending on the situation. I might buy a dombo and then when I have the money convert it into a head & extension cabinet with stained wood. Portable, beautiful, great tone and versatile.




I did get to play an Egnater Tweaker 15 that definitely impressed me yesterday. It seems plenty loud and the big, high gain sound might be better suited to my modern rock style. I love the G12H speaker that's included with the combo. Aaaand it's really really affordable.


The clean's just not as clean as a good Fender though. And, I can live without half a dozen different tone controls. I use a Fulltone OCD for distortion so really I don't need heavy distortion. I need an amp that can sit at the edge of clean and breakup, and Fender's do that better. (Though admittedly I have found many Fenders with harsh cleans and muddy ugly distortion)


I'm going to try a 65 DRRI on Monday and we'll see where that gets me. I have a feeling that with either the Egnater Tweaker or Fender DRRI I can't go wrong.


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Post subject: Re: Questions on a Princeton Stack
Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 12:42 pm
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If your looking at Egnater, try the Rebel series too. My Rebel 20 head weighs in at around 16lbs and the cab is around 30. I can carry my head, cab and my guitar strapped to my back no problem. Also Egnater has the Rebel 30 combo. Pretty cool amp and a lot more versatile than a Princeton. On a serious note, I'm a professional photographer and work in Philadelphia, Pa quite a bit and have to haul my gear all over the city. I carry studio flashes, camera, stands, tripod etc. on a small hand cart. My lighting gear alone weighs around 35 lbs. Just a thought.

The Rebel 30 has a really nice clean channel and comes in a head too. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Questions on a Princeton Stack
Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 12:57 pm
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I joke but a bike trailer is definitely not out of the question.

A hand cart is a very good idea too. I've imagined myself loading a 57 Twin on a dolley and asking if that was a worthy approach. Good on you for porting everything yourself, what would you say is the total weight load of all your photo gear just out of curiosity?

I tried the Rebel but just didn't like it as much. In hindsight I'm thinking a lot of that was the Elite-80 speaker, so I'll give it another try.


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Post subject: Re: Questions on a Princeton Stack
Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 1:08 pm
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I have a Rebel 20 with two 112 Egnater cabs. The Elite 80's take a little while to break in and when they do they're awesome. But tone is really subjective. The Tweakers are really nice too.

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Post subject: Re: Questions on a Princeton Stack
Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 2:42 pm
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demaria.daniel wrote:
I joke but a bike trailer is definitely not out of the question.

A hand cart is a very good idea too. I've imagined myself loading a 57 Twin on a dolley and asking if that was a worthy approach. Good on you for porting everything yourself, what would you say is the total weight load of all your photo gear just out of curiosity?

I tried the Rebel but just didn't like it as much. In hindsight I'm thinking a lot of that was the Elite-80 speaker, so I'll give it another try.

Man,I can understand your situation,but unless you've gigged before,I don't know if you really know what's involved....getting the gear there in a cart,on a bike,or in a city bus to and from a gig,will be a major hassle....makes no sense to me...I'd rather take a beating... :?
good luck,you're really going to need it,....and a strong back. :)


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Post subject: Re: Questions on a Princeton Stack
Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 3:57 pm
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I'd probably take a Taxi. Some situations in Philly require you to park elsewhere. Sometimes parking close enough just to unload your gear is a hassle. You do what you have to do.

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Post subject: Re: Questions on a Princeton Stack
Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 4:10 pm
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63supro wrote:
I'd probably take a Taxi. Some situations in Philly require you to park elsewhere. Sometimes parking close enough just to unload your gear is a hassle. You do what you have to do.


+1

I can't even fathom walking around some inner-city shitropolis in the US with my arms laden with gear while worrying about punks trying to "relieve" me of it before I located the sanctuary of the venue and managed to step inside.

:shock:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Questions on a Princeton Stack
Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 1:22 pm
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I seriously don't see how you can do any gigging without a car. I have a guitar, a tote bag, and a small amp. It's the lightest setup I've ever used. I really don't see how it could get much lighter and there is no way I could carry that stuff on a bike.

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