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Post subject: Re: HELP choosing an AMP!
Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 12:24 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
I had $325 into it when I bought it -- six years later I flipped it for $400. And the buyer thought it was a steal at that price.

Arjay


how was that 325 new?!?! wow!


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Post subject: Re: HELP choosing an AMP!
Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 1:44 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
You've mentioned playing gigs, which in and of itself implies that any new amp you decide on should provide a level of trust and reliability that all professional musicians require of their gear. Frankly, I do not "feel the love" with any model within the Frontman line which can deliver dependable service on a sustained night-after-night basis.

As well, I think if you do some research you'll discover that a 100-watt amp (regardless of brand) is overkill in most of today's live venues.

Something to think about......

Arjay


+1 I carried a 100 watt 76 Twin for 30 years. I can play virtually all my gigs with a 20 watt Egnater Rebel 20. Never a problem. Bigger places it gets mic'd and still has plenty of stage volume.

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Post subject: Re: HELP choosing an AMP!
Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:32 pm
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daozen wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
A modern non-tube amp that's reliable?

:lol:

Arjay


Haha, good point, I'm going through some Mustang iii threads and that seems like a nightmare! I knew that lcd screen was a "keep away" sign.

The thing is tubes will need replacing don't they? how often is that done with most fender tube amps? sadly too pricey to be honest. The other thing I should have mentioned is my budget. $300 max... Picking up a Fender seems the best move given I'm getting a strat, but should I look at other brands in that price range? thanks!

If you're looking for a reliable sturdy solid state amp, I'd recommend a Roland Cube 80xl. They're a bit more expensive than a 212r, but it should be more or less in your price range, depending on where you live. You may be able to get by w/the 40xl. The 80xl has a speaker extension jack. Probably a better amp for gigging. A very roadworthy amp.


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Post subject: Re: HELP choosing an AMP!
Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 6:38 am
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I have a MIM Players Deluxe with the Vintage noiseless and a Fender Frontman 212r with two Eminence Texas Heats as a backup amp for my tube amps. I never could get the thick blues tone I was looking for out of that 212r, but it works ok with a Hardwire CM2 in front of it. I have used an EH Black Finger and a MXR 10 band eq in the loop and it thickened the tone up quite a bit.

I have a Blues Deluxe, Blues Deville and an Egnater Tweaker 15 head and they get the thick tone I was looking for and all have effects loops for my modulation effects.

I ran into a 1967 Super Reverb last week and it has left an impression on my GAS syndrome...

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Post subject: Re: HELP choosing an AMP!
Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 9:03 pm
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63supro wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
You've mentioned playing gigs, which in and of itself implies that any new amp you decide on should provide a level of trust and reliability that all professional musicians require of their gear. Frankly, I do not "feel the love" with any model within the Frontman line which can deliver dependable service on a sustained night-after-night basis.

As well, I think if you do some research you'll discover that a 100-watt amp (regardless of brand) is overkill in most of today's live venues.

Something to think about......

Arjay


+1 I carried a 100 watt 76 Twin for 30 years. I can play virtually all my gigs with a 20 watt Egnater Rebel 20. Never a problem. Bigger places it gets mic'd and still has plenty of stage volume.


Thanks, no problems with clean tones?


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Post subject: Re: HELP choosing an AMP!
Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 9:04 pm
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mojjett wrote:
daozen wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
A modern non-tube amp that's reliable?

:lol:

Arjay


Haha, good point, I'm going through some Mustang iii threads and that seems like a nightmare! I knew that lcd screen was a "keep away" sign.

The thing is tubes will need replacing don't they? how often is that done with most fender tube amps? sadly too pricey to be honest. The other thing I should have mentioned is my budget. $300 max... Picking up a Fender seems the best move given I'm getting a strat, but should I look at other brands in that price range? thanks!

If you're looking for a reliable sturdy solid state amp, I'd recommend a Roland Cube 80xl. They're a bit more expensive than a 212r, but it should be more or less in your price range, depending on where you live. You may be able to get by w/the 40xl. The 80xl has a speaker extension jack. Probably a better amp for gigging. A very roadworthy amp.


great! I'll check out the roland cubes!


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Post subject: Re: HELP choosing an AMP!
Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 9:11 pm
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majorbytes wrote:
I have a MIM Players Deluxe with the Vintage noiseless and a Fender Frontman 212r with two Eminence Texas Heats as a backup amp for my tube amps. I never could get the thick blues tone I was looking for out of that 212r, but it works ok with a Hardwire CM2 in front of it. I have used an EH Black Finger and a MXR 10 band eq in the loop and it thickened the tone up quite a bit.

I have a Blues Deluxe, Blues Deville and an Egnater Tweaker 15 head and they get the thick tone I was looking for and all have effects loops for my modulation effects.

I ran into a 1967 Super Reverb last week and it has left an impression on my GAS syndrome...


You've got the guitar and amp I'm thinking of having! Given the price range of the 212 is there anything else you think you could find that would give you a better tone?


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Post subject: Re: HELP choosing an AMP!
Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 10:28 pm
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I tried a lot of pedals with the Frontman 212r for over drive and distortion. Zoom G9.2tt, Bad Monkey, EH Black Finger, EH Soul Preacher, Boss DS-1, Beri TS800, Screamin Blues, Fulltone Fulldrive 2 Mosfet, MXR 10 Band EQ, Big Muff with Tone/Wicker and a Hardwire CM2.

The EH Soul Preacher, Hardwire CM2, MXR 10 Band EQ and the Fulltone have the best results, but that amp just sounds to sterile to me when it is over driven. I use it for cleans and the MXR 10 Band EQ beefs up the clean tone really good. In a band situation it seems to blow out the louder it gets when the overdrive is kicked on, even with the two Texas Heats I put in it. It is playable and if someone was just starting out and with a limited budget it might be a good choice, but it really depends on the type of music they want to play. I play mostly Blues and Gilmour type of music now and not much high gain stuff like the Scorpions or Iron Maiden.

That Players Deluxe I have is strung up with 12's and tuned down half a step and that does beef up the tone through the Frontman 212r. I have a Blacktop Strat with the EMG Gilmour active pickups strung up with 10's and it sounds like pissed off bumble bees in a jar when I played it through the Frontman 212r. My acoustic electrics sound pretty good through it though. The effects loop works really well with all of my modulation effects.

The thing has a five year warranty, so that is a plus. I use it mostly for a backup amp and a speaker cab for my tube amps. I have never had any problems so far, but I ain't gigging with it, so it ain't getting to stressed out. I have read some reviews that they were pretty reliable and that was one of the reasons I bought it.

If you were to get one I would highly recommend a good EQ pedal, I use a MXR 10 band, but I also have some Behringer EQ 700 pedals I use in the studio. They sound good and do the job, but they are not very sturdy or road worthy.

I have AB'd the thing with my tube amps and I can get close at low volumes in matching the tone. At louder settings the tube amps seem to get thick and loud and the Frontman 212r just seems to get loud, if you know what I mean.

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Post subject: Re: HELP choosing an AMP!
Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 10:49 pm
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Man, this is really helpful! I will be playing a lot of heavily over driven and delayed stuff. Maybe 70% overdriven to 30% clean, so I think a smaller amp might be a better choice then. What do you mean when you say it blows out with the OD? How do you find the tone of the deluxe player's with it's normal 9 strings? I will take in mind the EQ pedal, it makes sense! Thanks a LOT!


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Post subject: Re: HELP choosing an AMP!
Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 7:27 am
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Quote:
What do you mean when you say it blows out with the OD?


It just seems to get really muddy, I can clean it up with the EQ pedal and the EQ on the guitar. It just takes a little tweaking. I forgot to mention that I tried a Digitech Grunge Pedal with that thing and scooped the mids and got some decent Scorpions out of it and one of the guys from the Rez has one and he dialed it in for some shredding stuff using that pedal, my EH Deluxe Electric Mistress, EH Stereo Memory Man, EH Small Clone, EH Small Stone and some guitar he had that started with an I and ended with a Z..

I don't play any guitars with less than ten's, they come out of the box and the thicker strings go on. You can do a lot with an EQ in your chain to compensate for thin strings. Lately I have been using the Bottoms off of the Dean Markley Vintage 70's, Reg. Gauge, 26,36,46. The tops are D'Addario EXL115-D, 11, 14, 18. On the Players Deluxe the bottoms are the same but the tops are D'Addario EXL145, 12, 16, 20. The thicker strings give me the bite and sustain I like and the strings last longer.

If you know what music you want to play, do some Google searches for the gear they are using and find something cheaper that comes close. I had a Mustang V and a 2 x 12 cab with two Texas Heats and it sounded pretty damn good at gig levels, but I could not stand it in the studio, to many artifacts in the signal. I sold it and just got a Mustang Floor unit and I am trying to get the Frontman 212r dialed in with it in the chain.

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Demos
http://www.youtube.com/user/bigskybluesband


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Post subject: Re: HELP choosing an AMP!
Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 11:04 am
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majorbytes wrote:
Quote:
What do you mean when you say it blows out with the OD?


It just seems to get really muddy, I can clean it up with the EQ pedal and the EQ on the guitar. It just takes a little tweaking. I forgot to mention that I tried a Digitech Grunge Pedal with that thing and scooped the mids and got some decent Scorpions out of it and one of the guys from the Rez has one and he dialed it in for some shredding stuff using that pedal, my EH Deluxe Electric Mistress, EH Stereo Memory Man, EH Small Clone, EH Small Stone and some guitar he had that started with an I and ended with a Z..

I don't play any guitars with less than ten's, they come out of the box and the thicker strings go on. You can do a lot with an EQ in your chain to compensate for thin strings. Lately I have been using the Bottoms off of the Dean Markley Vintage 70's, Reg. Gauge, 26,36,46. The tops are D'Addario EXL115-D, 11, 14, 18. On the Players Deluxe the bottoms are the same but the tops are D'Addario EXL145, 12, 16, 20. The thicker strings give me the bite and sustain I like and the strings last longer.

If you know what music you want to play, do some Google searches for the gear they are using and find something cheaper that comes close. I had a Mustang V and a 2 x 12 cab with two Texas Heats and it sounded pretty damn good at gig levels, but I could not stand it in the studio, to many artifacts in the signal. I sold it and just got a Mustang Floor unit and I am trying to get the Frontman 212r dialed in with it in the chain.


Yeah I forgot to say what I want to play, sorry. The tone I'm looking for is kind of a hendrix-band of gypsies tone without all the modulation he used, just some delay. I know his pickups where upside down, but I'm always on the pos 1 neck pickup, with the tone knob on 1-2. Very warm bluesy OD I guess. What would be the best way to get that tone out of the Deluxe Players in your opinion? thanks!


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Post subject: Re: HELP choosing an AMP!
Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 11:54 am
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daozen wrote:
The tone I'm looking for is kind of a hendrix-band of gypsies tone without all the modulation he used, just some delay. I know his pickups where upside down, but I'm always on the pos 1 neck pickup, with the tone knob on 1-2. Very warm bluesy OD I guess. What would be the best way to get that tone out of the Deluxe Players in your opinion? thanks!


+1

I favor a Strat's neck pickup as well for some solos (the "woman" tone thing) and I get it just like you -- with the top tone control rolled back, usually to "0". Because -- generally speaking -- the neck pickup is the weakest in a set, I use my Fulltone OCD to pump that signal up a skosh to put some additional voltage into the front end of my amp. It works well to compensate for the inherently lower output of the neck pickup.

It sounds like you're on the right track, daozen.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: HELP choosing an AMP!
Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:24 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
daozen wrote:
The tone I'm looking for is kind of a hendrix-band of gypsies tone without all the modulation he used, just some delay. I know his pickups where upside down, but I'm always on the pos 1 neck pickup, with the tone knob on 1-2. Very warm bluesy OD I guess. What would be the best way to get that tone out of the Deluxe Players in your opinion? thanks!


+1

I favor a Strat's neck pickup as well for some solos (the "woman" tone thing) and I get it just like you -- with the top tone control rolled back, usually to "0". Because -- generally speaking -- the neck pickup is the weakest in a set, I use my Fulltone OCD to pump that signal up a skosh to put some additional voltage into the front end of my amp. It works well to compensate for the inherently lower output of the neck pickup.

It sounds like you're on the right track, daozen.

Arjay


Exactly! the "woman" tone! I also use it for chords but I scroll up some more tone (if I remember to do so) when I do. So you think the Dlx players+212+OCD makes it all happen? Man I'm salivating already thinking about it.


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Post subject: Re: HELP choosing an AMP!
Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:52 pm
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Yeah, the neck pickup will "mud out" under those protocols when playing rhythm -- best to bleed some tone (treble) back into the mix to give them some definition when playing chords.

The 212 would never be my candidate based on known reliability issues but sonically, you should be able to derive some decent tones with it using your Deluxe Player and an OD/boost pedal like the Fulltone. Give the ProCo Rat, Digitech Bad Monkey, and Keeley-modded TS9 a try as well. They're all worthy of consideration.

Rawk on!

8)

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: HELP choosing an AMP!
Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:00 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Some of them -- like this Stage 100 DSP I once owned and gigged with for many years -- are equipped with an extension speaker jack which allows the addition of an extra 8-ohm cab......

Image

This rig would eat a Peavey or Crate half-stack for lunch.

My wife called it "the micro-stack from hell".

:mrgreen:

Arjay


BREAKING NEWS! Avowed "tube-o-phile" Arjay admits that he once played a solid state amp (WITH DSP!) "for many years". Story at 11:00.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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