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Post subject: Re: S-S 22 Reverb Issue..
Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 7:42 pm
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That's just it, you didn't mention that yours was still noisy, or what kind of noise, you just mentioned that you had already quieted your amp by rerouting a cable. I got the impression that you were offering some type of fix for the OP and/or the other poster that had noise.

You might be onto something with the shielded cable for your amp, if it's that type of 60 hz noise. My initial response was for the OP and his description of his amp problem. To me, it sounded like a tube issue in that case.

What kind of noise does your amp have? You mentioned that you had already tried various tubes, so it doesn't seem to be a tube issue for yours.

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Post subject: Re: S-S 22 Reverb Issue..
Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 8:28 pm
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You would be hard pressed to find a SS22 that isn't noisy. This is not a quiet amp to begin with, and it doesn't develope the problem after owning it for a while. I bought mine after demoing it in a noisy room and noticed it after I got it home and I liked the tone. In a band setting it's okay, home or recording it is not. I'm not sure what happened in the manufacturing process between the demos that Fender has on the SS22, and what is out on the street now. You cannot record with it, it's just too noisy. I almost shipped it to Fender, I almost sold it, but I decided to try one more time to quiet it down without getting the soldering iron out. I'll probably still ship it back. It could be just that one piece of white wire coming out of the reverb circuit board that is the problem, but that's still part of the reverb circuit and will void the warranty if I switch it out. I would love to have a dead quiet amp and just be out a 3 or 4 inch piece of coax. The amp cost a grand, and I expect better.

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Post subject: Re: S-S 22 Reverb Issue..
Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 10:29 pm
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rjake wrote:
You would be hard pressed to find a SS22 that isn't noisy......The amp cost a grand, and I expect better.


+1

A design travesty to be sure.

:roll:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: S-S 22 Reverb Issue..
Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 11:49 pm
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Or, just do a search of this site for "SS 22" and "Supersonic 22" for the owners that have verified no noise. I just finished reading several dozen pages of the threads on the SS 22. I can't conclude that it's a design problem, since not all of the amps have noise. And, since there are owners that have had their amps fixed at local shops, it isn't something that can't be easily fixed. The SS 100 doesn't seem to have issues with noise, and the reverb circuit is nearly identical (sans a piece of shielded cable). It must be something simple, maybe the cable needs to be shielded as rjake mentioned, or simply some faulty components need to be replaced.

rjake,
You should call Kevin at Uncle Alberts to see if he could give you some insight. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: S-S 22 Reverb Issue..
Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 9:03 am
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shimmilou...I was one of the unlucky ones who suffered through no less than 3 problematic, noisy SS22's back in April of last year. 2 special ordered through GC, and the final one from a local music shop in Marin. The last SS22, at the request of Fender, went to a repair center to have the "tech note" repair performed. Long story short, the hiss remained. Not a problem playing out, but home practice was a pain. No amount ot tube swappage or bias adjustment helped. Throughout the ordeal, I was in constant communication with Fender and the repair tech. My final email from Fender was as follows:

"1. As you already know, this is a high gain amp, it’s not going to be clean and quiet like a 65 Dlx.
2. This amp was not designed to be played at low volumes although you can use it in a low volume setting, the results will be mixed.
3. It’s a tube amp and noise is going to be there regardless and though some noise amp might not be as prominent in other amps, this is normal.
I do not know what else to tell you, in regards to what your expectations of this amp might be, it is its own breed."

No doubt some were noisier than others...and peoples tolerance to noise varies...but Fender clearly admits this is not a "clean and quiet" amp.


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Post subject: Re: S-S 22 Reverb Issue..
Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 9:45 am
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If I understand, there was no noise with the reverb turned down, is that right?

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Post subject: Re: S-S 22 Reverb Issue..
Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 9:57 am
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...there was white noise (hissing) present anytime the amp was switched from standby.
Even with all volumes, eq's turned completely down....and NO instrument plugged in.
Again....not a big deal playing out, barely noticable at the music store due to ambient noise, but in a quiet room VERY irritating.

The first 2 SS22's I got also had a monster reverb problem. ...No reverb...and as you turned the reverb knob up....you got "buzz".


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Post subject: Re: S-S 22 Reverb Issue..
Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:23 am
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Have you tried running a nice quiet, selected 12AY7 (or better yet, 6072) in the input (V1) stage?

And my bet is that those J-FET's in the recovery stage of the reverb is adding too much gain (and noise and feedback) to the 12AX7A recovery tube (V4).

Maybe, a good 5751 (like JAN-Sylvania) will help quiet that stage by decreasing the overall gain. Or even another 12AY7 (6072). Maybe worth a try in the V4 postion.

Good luck!

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=6072+tube

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sylvania-5751-V ... 3cc6a15a56


http://support.fender.com/schematics/gu ... ematic.pdf


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Post subject: Re: S-S 22 Reverb Issue..
Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:52 am
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BMW2002Ti....I think you're on to something......the "tech note" or fix Fender provided was the addition of a pair of resistors to the reverb stage......in order to reduce the amount of gain entering.....I never removed the chassis to inspect this, simply what the tech said he did. He also replaced a pair of contacts which greatly reduced the "pop" when switching from the vintage to burn channel.
In the end, it still hissed a bit too much for my liking, so I swapped for a Limited Edition DRRI. After the Fritz mod, some tube swapping and a Cannabis Rex install....I've got a very versatile package that plays well with pedals, thickens up nicely when the channels are jumpered together and sings quietly at home practice.


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Post subject: Re: S-S 22 Reverb Issue..
Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 2:03 pm
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Looks like the same circuit/JFETs in the 22 and 100. :?:

It seems clearer now that we have been discussing two separate issues, the so-called "normal" amp hiss, and the reverb noise/buzz. There is a fix for the reverb noise, and Fender says that the "normal" hiss is not "fixable" and just the nature of the beast with this amp. Does that sound about right?

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Post subject: Re: S-S 22 Reverb Issue..
Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 2:48 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
Have you tried running a nice quiet, selected 12AY7 (or better yet, 6072) in the input (V1) stage?

And my bet is that those J-FET's in the recovery stage of the reverb is adding too much gain (and noise and feedback) to the 12AX7A recovery tube (V4).

Maybe, a good 5751 (like JAN-Sylvania) will help quiet that stage by decreasing the overall gain. Or even another 12AY7 (6072). Maybe worth a try in the V4 postion.

Good luck!

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=6072+tube

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sylvania-5751-V ... 3cc6a15a56


http://support.fender.com/schematics/gu ... ematic.pdf


I tried that BMW. It does sound pretty good with both of your suggestions. It does calm the noise down a bit, but I bought the amp because of the tone it had stock. It compresses the amp a bit. Just seems I shouldn't have to do that with a $1000 Fender amp. But, if you want less noise.....

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Post subject: Re: S-S 22 Reverb Issue..
Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 7:45 pm
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Never mind what I said previously. I missed the ground connection on C100. There are no capacitors across the input and output of the reverb tank in the SS22. C100 and C99 have a common ground connection. Shame on me. :(

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Post subject: Re: S-S 22 Reverb Issue..
Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 7:52 pm
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So all is ok? Keep the 12AY7 or 5751 for those occassional times yyou want a tad cleaner tone and maybe a bit more headroom.

Congrats on the fix.


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Post subject: Re: S-S 22 Reverb Issue..
Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 7:56 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
So all is ok? Keep the 12AY7 or 5751 for those occassional times yyou want a tad cleaner tone and maybe a bit more headroom.

Congrats on the fix.


I don't think it's a fix, I think it's a compromise.

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