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Post subject: Specific Question on Blues Jr and possible mods
Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 7:10 am
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Hello to all,
I have just joined this group, but I have been using a green board Fender Blues Jr amp, bought it new. I am hoping to get experienced and knowledgeable advice on my issues with the amplifier and possible modification. Fingers crossed.
I love the amp. As I have used it I have become less amicable to the boxey sound. Not terrible, but now noticeable. I mainly play gibsons through it. 57 classics mostly. But just purchased a LP with 57 and a 57+. I am unhappy with it's sound. I get more dynamics out of a squier affinity strat IMO.
The specific problem is that this is a bedroom, amateur never played loud situation. IMO the dynamics of the amplifier drop at my usual volumes. This is my major complaint. I was advised to get a less efficient speaker so that it would require more volume (master) to get to my sound level and possible drive it into the more harmonic range. I've read about the Billm modifications and maybe I missed it but I haven't located a mod to address this specific problem.
Secondly is that with the LP, the bass when turned up to louder than my normal volumes gets muddy. The more bass the more muddy.
I am going to replace the caps to jensen PIO .15 uF neck and .022 mF on the bridge, also changing the 300k volume pots to 500K Superpots. I have no idea if that will make an appreciable change. Time will tell.
I have also read of a device, sorry the name slips my mind that supposedly replaces the volume pot and applies more consistent voltage at lower volumes.
As can be seen, I don't really know much about it, but would indeed like to be able to get the LP to sound right and get more harmonics from the amplifier at lower volumes.
Any opinions or thoughts on the matter are appreciated. The amplifier is old.
Thanks for any assistance!
Glenn


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Post subject: Re: Specific Question on Blues Jr and possible mods
Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 11:17 am
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Hi glennc717,

I didn't see any type of question, let alone a "specific" question. I would say that a less efficient speaker would dull your sound, not sure why you would want that. A more efficient speaker would give more volume and better sound IMO.

If the Billm site doesn't have what you're looking for, then it doesn't exist. You might want to spend some more time looking at that site as the things that you are describing are covered there. Boxey sound, muddy sound, not enough bass, all are covered and much more, including speaker recommendations.

You might want to try an external closed back speaker cabinet. Using an ext cab can make a world of difference by itself, just unplug the internal speaker and plug into a cab. Make sure to use the speaker jack and not the jack right beside it which is for the FAT foot switch. An 8 ohm cab would probably be the best, but a 4 ohm would work well also, doesn't matter if the cab is 1x12, 2x12, 4x12, or 4x10. Also, it might be time for a fresh set of tubes. You can tailor your sound quite a bit with the right tubes.

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Post subject: Re: Specific Question on Blues Jr and possible mods
Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 2:51 pm
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The billm mods should take care of the muddyness.
You might want to try some lower gain preamp tubes for the dynamics issue.
I can look to see what I'm using if your interested. I'm mostly playing a les Paul through mine at low volume most of the time.


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Post subject: Re: Specific Question on Blues Jr and possible mods
Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 7:41 pm
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+1 using an extension cab
I tried it on a 2x12 emenince wired jet city cab and sounded
Amazing

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Post subject: Re: Specific Question on Blues Jr and possible mods
Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 3:43 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Hi glennc717,

I didn't see any type of question, let alone a "specific" question. I would say that a less efficient speaker would dull your sound, not sure why you would want that. A more efficient speaker would give more volume and better sound IMO.

If the Billm site doesn't have what you're looking for, then it doesn't exist. You might want to spend some more time looking at that site as the things that you are describing are covered there. Boxey sound, muddy sound, not enough bass, all are covered and much more, including speaker recommendations.

You might want to try an external closed back speaker cabinet. Using an ext cab can make a world of difference by itself, just unplug the internal speaker and plug into a cab. Make sure to use the speaker jack and not the jack right beside it which is for the FAT foot switch. An 8 ohm cab would probably be the best, but a 4 ohm would work well also, doesn't matter if the cab is 1x12, 2x12, 4x12, or 4x10. Also, it might be time for a fresh set of tubes. You can tailor your sound quite a bit with the right tubes.


Hello Shimmilou,
I am sorry for not being clearer. I want the dynamic range of the amplifier when it is set at above 2, at volumes lower than 2. I heard mentioned that there is a Phase Inverter something (sorry) to replace the master volume that gives what I am looking for.
The idea of the less efficient speaker was to force the the amplifier to drive the speaker with more power at lower volumes. So I could turn it to 2 or more and it would be as loud as it currently is at less than 2.
Basically, the best I can describe it is when you listen to the radio or dvd at normal volume levels the guitars are clipping and distorting and exhibiting there powerful dynamic range at a normal volume level. I would like to try to duplicate that.
The amps boxiness is a separate issue, that the BillM site has under control. Heard the Cannibus Rex replacement speaker is really good. That would not and might hinder the first mentioned problem.
In reference to the tones the changing of the tubes or speakers is voodoo to my knowledge level. I don't have a particular sound I am looking for and I like Pink Floyd and Stevie Ray Vaughan and Led Zeppelin. So it gets complicated for me. The idea of a seperate speaker cabinet is interesting and I will investigate it further.
Thanks for you response
Glenn


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Post subject: Re: Specific Question on Blues Jr and possible mods
Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 3:46 pm
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eddie_bowers wrote:
The billm mods should take care of the muddyness.
You might want to try some lower gain preamp tubes for the dynamics issue.
I can look to see what I'm using if your interested. I'm mostly playing a les Paul through mine at low volume most of the time.


Hello and thanks for the response. As it sounds like my issue, I would gladly take you up on the offer and do some research on it. As I said in the above post, I have separate issues
which may conflict. Love to hear what works for you. Much appreciated!
Glenn


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Post subject: Re: Specific Question on Blues Jr and possible mods
Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 3:48 pm
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bluesstrattone wrote:
+1 using an extension cab
I tried it on a 2x12 emenince wired jet city cab and sounded
Amazing


Thanks for the response and advice. I don't know how much this seperate speaker thing will cost, but it is worth looking into. Thanks again!
Glenn


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Post subject: Re: Specific Question on Blues Jr and possible mods
Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 6:19 pm
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glennc717 wrote:
...I want the dynamic range of the amplifier when it is set at above 2, at volumes lower than 2. I heard mentioned that there is a Phase Inverter something (sorry) to replace the master volume that gives what I am looking for.


That is what the master volume is for on this amp, to get the distortion at lower volume. With volume maxed, and the master set low, the amp gets distortion and low volume out of the amp. Conversely, with the master maxed, and the volume set low, the amp stays cleaner.

glennc717 wrote:
Basically, the best I can describe it is when you listen to the radio or dvd at normal volume levels the guitars are clipping and distorting and exhibiting there powerful dynamic range at a normal volume level. I would like to try to duplicate that.


It sounds as if you might be thinking about an attenuator between amp and speaker, which is a resistive load on the amp output to allow you to crank the amp for the distortion, yet at lower volume out of the amp by adjusting the volume out of the attenuator to the speaker.
http://www.tedweber.com/atten.htm

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Post subject: Re: Specific Question on Blues Jr and possible mods
Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 7:56 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
glennc717 wrote:
...I want the dynamic range of the amplifier when it is set at above 2, at volumes lower than 2. I heard mentioned that there is a Phase Inverter something (sorry) to replace the master volume that gives what I am looking for.


That is what the master volume is for on this amp, to get the distortion at lower volume. With volume maxed, and the master set low, the amp gets distortion and low volume out of the amp. Conversely, with the master maxed, and the volume set low, the amp stays cleaner.

glennc717 wrote:
Basically, the best I can describe it is when you listen to the radio or dvd at normal volume levels the guitars are clipping and distorting and exhibiting there powerful dynamic range at a normal volume level. I would like to try to duplicate that.


It sounds as if you might be thinking about an attenuator between amp and speaker, which is a resistive load on the amp output to allow you to crank the amp for the distortion, yet at lower volume out of the amp by adjusting the volume out of the attenuator to the speaker.
http://www.tedweber.com/atten.htm


Thanks for the reply,
Yes I understand the volume and master volume. That device you linked may be what the guy was talking about. The thing is, is I don't want anymore distortion, I tried using a FAT Pedal and it still didn't give me the sound at what I term an acceptable volume. Would this amp be able to cleanly power say a 2 X 12" Speaker cabinet? What effects do think that would provide? Appreciate your time!
Glenn


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Post subject: Re: Specific Question on Blues Jr and possible mods
Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:00 am
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Using a closed back ext cab will give a fuller sound with more bass, whether 1x12, 2x12 or 4x12.

I am still not clear about what you want from this amp, but it seems that you don't really know either, so I won't worry about it. You say you want to "drive the speaker harder at lower volumes", yet you don't want more distortion. Using a less efficient speaker will not give cleaner sound at lower volumes. A less efficient speaker will have less dynamics at any volume. I don't understand I guess :?

Most any tube amp will not give the same dynamics at very low volume as it does when cranked, no matter what you do to it. Maybe you need a solid state amp? If you get more dynamics with a Squier than a LP, then use a Squier and be done with it. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: Specific Question on Blues Jr and possible mods
Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 10:06 am
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shimmilou wrote:
Using a closed back ext cab will give a fuller sound with more bass, whether 1x12, 2x12 or 4x12.

I am still not clear about what you want from this amp, but it seems that you don't really know either, so I won't worry about it. You say you want to "drive the speaker harder at lower volumes", yet you don't want more distortion. Using a less efficient speaker will not give cleaner sound at lower volumes. A less efficient speaker will have less dynamics at any volume. I don't understand I guess :?

Most any tube amp will not give the same dynamics at very low volume as it does when cranked, no matter what you do to it. Maybe you need a solid state amp? If you get more dynamics with a Squier than a LP, then use a Squier and be done with it. :idea:


I have made myself as clear as possible and what I want to occur. Whether it is possible is another story. The idea of the speaker came from a guitar technician, so I have no idea of the validity. The device you mentioned seems like to much trouble.
I personally don't like SS Amps, personal thing. Went back into the BillM page and found some things that might help, like the twin like tone stack mod and maybe a different speaker. The concept of having a larger dynamic range and not distortion does not seem to me hard to understand. Just found my notes on what was described as a Post Phase Inverter. This was also suggested. Since I have no idea what it is, I will be searching for that information. Also suggested by the tech, said he put it on his blues jr. for the reasons that I have described. Who knows. Also youtubing cabinet making instructions for a 2X12. Still the differences in speakers and there response is not something that can be verbally described to me at this point.
Glenn


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Post subject: Re: Specific Question on Blues Jr and possible mods
Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 12:08 pm
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Hello and thanks!
Thanks for the help and the start of the way to making the Blues Jr. sound better. Replaced the tube with the JJEL84s and the Sovtek 12AX7WAs. Much more responsive and more frequencies. As BillM noted it did not help the volume problem, but after around 20 years, the tubes deserved retirement.
Take care!
Glenn


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Post subject: Re: Specific Question on Blues Jr and possible mods
Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 7:18 pm
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Well have made a stab at speakers and between the eminence swamp thang and the cannabis rex, I was persuaded to go with the Rex. On order, can't wait to bolt it in.
Still considering a separate cabinet with a solid back with a removeable panel so I can experiment with the sound of the 112 and the new speaker. But that will be a while yet.
Fingers crossed!
Glenn


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