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Post subject: BDRI, worhtless drive channel.
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:46 am
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Hi all. I recently modded my BDRI speaker and tubes, and im very pleased with results. But the drive channel is worthless. Very little drive and quite weak sounding. Ive sort of resigned to the fact that its a one channel amp, that i use as platform with pedals.
I generally use my Fulldrive 2 for most blues overdriven duties. I did use a TS9, but the Fulldrive is so much better the TS9 lost its spot on my board.
But im now finding that some of the stuff im doing with the band, im in need of more rock crunch sound. Think ZZ Tops Tush or Allman bros Trouble no more.
My first thought is to maybe try and develop the drive channel. The mod work i did was as follows.

V1. Jan Phillips 5751
V2. Tungsol Reissue 12AX7
V3. As above but balanced
V4 and V5. JJ 6L6s biased to 88mv at test point.
Speaker was replaced for a Weber 12F150.

My second thought was to maybe add a crunch pedal to my board for the more rock orientated moments. Something like a MI Audio Crunchbox maybe?

Or as a third option, ditch the BDRI and get something else. But not moving to far away from the overdriven Fender sound, but with a decent drive channel and built in reverb. Not a Supersonic though.

Any advice or steer in the right direction is greatly appreciated.

Many thanks.


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Post subject: Re: BDRI, worhtless drive channel.
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:04 am
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Not a lot of difference in that amp when switching to the drive channel, and you've lowered the gain with the 5751 in V1. The drive channel in this amp is not designed for crunchy sounds to begin with, it's more of a bluesy breakup, and some of the gain from V1 is now lowered. Any mods to get a more driven sound and you will loose the sound that you like now.

You just don't see, or hear about, many people playing crunchy hard rock on a BDRI.

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Post subject: Re: BDRI, worhtless drive channel.
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:32 am
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Yeah, I know. Hence option 3 :D


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Post subject: Re: BDRI, worhtless drive channel.
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:36 pm
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Find yourself a Prosonic if you must have a decent drive channel -- either a combo or the head.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: BDRI, worhtless drive channel.
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:06 pm
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Just put a drive in front of it. I have a original BD and if you put a pedal in front of the drive channel you can get compressed sounds till your hearts content. Plug in a LP and the sustain to feedback is rock n roll as!! 8) . Crunchy rock tones to medium heavy sounds no problem. Of course you aint going to get really dark metal out of it but hey you did not buy a BDRI for that sort of tone. If you use a pedal in front of the drive channel and that is not enough "crunch" for you then you have to ask your self 2 questions first one being why on earth did I buy a BDRI and second one being am I looking for a more compressed sound than the actuall sound I am trying to duplicate being ZZ and the like!?

Ps... Then plug this set up into a 2 12 and you will have all the tone you've ever desired!!! I use a diamond J drive for my rock tones on my BD it has a clean boost and a drive channel... So then in effect I have three gears to change....third can pull of really heavy rock all day long....

Have fun!!!
:wink:

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Post subject: Re: BDRI, worhtless drive channel.
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:32 pm
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It is just a moderate crunch sound I'm after. No searing high gain stuff or nothing like that at all.
My amp has pretty much always delivered what I asked of it following the mod work.
But we have had a few tunes where I'm after a bit more crunch.
I think the pedal option is a starting point.
I must admit, I didn't realise the 5751 would have such an effect on the drive channel. I wrongly assumed V1 for clean, V2 for drive.


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Post subject: Re: BDRI, worhtless drive channel.
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:48 pm
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dc01 wrote:
I wrongly assumed V1 for clean, V2 for drive.


Well, you are partly correct here. When set for clean, the volume control appears between the two halves of V1. It acts to reduce the gain by reducing the output of the first half of V1. You would have to turn it all the way up to get max gain out of V1.

When set to drive, the volume control is removed from the circuit and V1 provides maximum gain. The drive volume control now appears between the second half of V1 and the first half of V2. The drive volume controls how much of the signal from V1 is used to drive V2. By using a 5751 in V1 (I use a 12AY7 in V1 making the drive channel as clean as the clean channel), you have lost the gain provided by a 12AX7 in V1. V2 really is just a gain make up stage for the tone stack. Note that the Hot Rod Deluxe/Deville uses the second half of V2 for "more drive".

All the other's comments are valid. I use a Full Drive FDM-2M into the clean channel for drive. Another approach can be found here using the second half of V2 for increased gain:

http://www.duncanamps.com/technical/bluesdeluxe.html

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Post subject: Re: BDRI, worhtless drive channel.
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:46 pm
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Your choice of power tubes will influence your breakup. For instance, blue groove tubes break up much sooner than reds.


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Post subject: Re: BDRI, worhtless drive channel.
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:04 pm
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GTG wrote:
Your choice of power tubes will influence your breakup. For instance, blue groove tubes break up much sooner than reds.


The OP used JJ 6L6GCs biased at 88 mV, not stock Groove Tubes biased at 60 mV (per Fender spec).

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Post subject: Re: BDRI, worhtless drive channel.
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:42 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
GTG wrote:
Your choice of power tubes will influence your breakup. For instance, blue groove tubes break up much sooner than reds.


The OP used JJ 6L6GCs biased at 88 mV, not stock Groove Tubes biased at 60 mV (per Fender spec).


That was just an example. Do JJs come with different breakup points, or other brands?


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Post subject: Re: BDRI, worhtless drive channel.
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:34 am
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If I were to take option 3 of ditching my BDRI.
Any suggestions for something else.
30-50w head. On board reverb. Independent eq for each channel with gain and volume controls. Fendery clean that'll take pedals well. More rock crunch orientated channel 2.
Budget of around £1000 but could go more.
I ve tried the offerings from egnater and Mesa and neither did it for me really. Nor did the supersonic.
Any suggestion fellow forumites?


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Post subject: Re: BDRI, worhtless drive channel.
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:17 am
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GTG wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
GTG wrote:
Your choice of power tubes will influence your breakup. For instance, blue groove tubes break up much sooner than reds.


The OP used JJ 6L6GCs biased at 88 mV, not stock Groove Tubes biased at 60 mV (per Fender spec).


That was just an example. Do JJs come with different breakup points, or other brands?


Not that I am aware of. You learn to bias them for the sound you want.

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Post subject: Re: BDRI, worhtless drive channel.
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:21 am
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dc01 wrote:
If I were to take option 3 of ditching my BDRI.
Any suggestions for something else.
30-50w head. On board reverb. Independent eq for each channel with gain and volume controls. Fendery clean that'll take pedals well. More rock crunch orientated channel 2.
Budget of around £1000 but could go more.
I ve tried the offerings from egnater and Mesa and neither did it for me really. Nor did the supersonic.
Any suggestion fellow forumites?


A used Prosonic has already been suggested by Arjay.

I still think a good pedal would be cheaper. Maybe this one:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CustomBad78/

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Post subject: Re: BDRI, worhtless drive channel.
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:14 am
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The drive on my BDRI just goes louder and more trebley than the clean channel when I hit the button on the foot switch. I really just like the clean tones I get with the amp.

I am getting some good ZZ Top sounds with a couple of pedals in the chain though. I am using a Hardwire CM2 and a Fulltone Fulldrive 2 Mosfet. I also have a MXR 10 Band EQ in the effects loop. The Hardwire CM2 really thickens up the tone a lot and I usually leave it on most of the time and hit the Fulldrive when I want the distortion. I have an EH Soul Preacher in front of both of them and if I click it on it really cleans up the distorted tone and gives it more sustain. I opened up the Soul Preacher and turned the gain down on the trim pot to make it less hissy.

I use this combo of pedals with a Blues Deville and an Egnater Tweaker 15 Head and they sound pretty good. Most of the time I am playing at low levels, but when I do crank it up I find the the Fulltone is all that is needed to get good thick distortion tone and the MXR will cut it through the mix if I kick it on.

I have been eying the Egnater Rebel 30 Head for the two channel wonder of a clean tone and really good drive tone with just the click of one button of the amp. Since I do more recording than gigs the Rebel is starting to look really good.

This is the current setup I have been using. Soul Preacher, Hardwire CM2 and Fulltone Fulldrive go straight into the amps. All the rest are in the effects loop and the Loop Station is the last in that chain..


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Post subject: Re: BDRI, worhtless drive channel.
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:41 am
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majorbytes wrote:
The drive on my BDRI just goes louder and more trebley than the clean channel when I hit the button on the foot switch.


The bass rolloff is by design, otherwise it would get too woofy when drive is engaged. However, given the fact that the drive on the BDRI is not that much, it may be a bit of overkill. Just need to boost the bass a bit.

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