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Post subject: 100% failure rate
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:00 pm
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My son and I bought a Blues DeVille and two DeVille Hot Rods recently. All three failed almost immediately. Our tech blamed the failures on shoddy soldering at the factory.

Has anybody else had a similar experience? Does anybody know why the quality control on these amps has gone down the tubes lately?


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Post subject: Re: 100% failure rate
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:22 pm
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:?

Poor factory solder joints aren't anything new, but have been quite common since around 2005 when the lead-free CRAP solder (commonly referred to as "RoHS" compliant) started to be used by manufacturers, compounding the problem of very thin circuit traces on the boards.

The newer versions (III) have better circuit boards and the solder joint problems are much less numerous with the newer versions.

Kind of hard to believe that all three amps failed at the same time, and "almost immediately". They were used after all. :?:

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Post subject: Re: 100% failure rate
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:39 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
:?

Poor factory solder joints aren't anything new, but have been quite common since around 2005 when the lead-free CRAP solder (commonly referred to as "RoHS" compliant) started to be used by manufacturers, compounding the problem of very thin circuit traces on the boards.

The newer versions (III) have better circuit boards and the solder joint problems are much less numerous with the newer versions.

Kind of hard to believe that all three amps failed at the same time, and "almost immediately". They were used after all. :?:


The amps were bought several weeks apart and were used at three different locations. But each one failed soon after purchase. The most recent one was purchased at Guitar Center Atlanta last Sunday and failed Sunday night.


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Post subject: Re: 100% failure rate
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:54 pm
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What was the nature of the failures? No sound out, random channel switching, loss of reverb?

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Post subject: Re: 100% failure rate
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:00 pm
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Shimmy, I haven't used many of the newer Fender amps. But, what ppl tell me, you need to be extra careful lugging them around. They can't take the pounding that ppl are used to doing to, with the old "horses."

Any truth to this?


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Post subject: Re: 100% failure rate
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:04 pm
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Yes, to some extent, some newer amps and newer tubes alike. Fast, wave-soldering, combined with the new crap solder makes it worse. For the HRd series, the problem seems most apparent on the version II after the switch to the new solder.

Combos used to just vibrate the heck out of the tubes, now the vibrations crack solder joints too. :(

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Post subject: Re: 100% failure rate
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:36 pm
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Shimmy, Have you ever used those tracer fix-it pens? Like this Caig product? I'd imagine with some boards it could be the only viable solution, as jumper wires can lead to more board & tracing damage, as well.


http://store.caig.com/s.nl?sc=2&categor ... d%20repair


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Post subject: Re: 100% failure rate
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:45 pm
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I have only used it for making circuit boards, not for fixing traces. I would rather use the pen instead of etching with chemicals.

For repair, I prefer a more solid connection, like these examples:

http://billmaudio.com/wp/?page_id=204

But, you are correct, you have to be careful. I prefer using high heat and working fast for the best connection. Mostly, the pads will lift, so I jumper around them as shown. Used solder wick, or component leads work very well.

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Post subject: Re: 100% failure rate
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:37 pm
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Sorry to hear about your amps going -- nothing worse on a gig.

If you're not carrying a spare amp, you could do what I do - I have a Smokey amp in my guitar case at all times. It will drive a 2x12 cab quite well in a pinch, and certainly could let you finish a gig if your amp dies on you.

http://www.smokeyamps.com/products/smok ... mokey-amp/

Usually about $25 online.

Worth it for the 1 time my Showman had issues and lost power halfway through a show.

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Post subject: Re: 100% failure rate
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:26 pm
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I tried the Electro Harmonix 44 Magnum and for around $150 it's pretty loud and decent sounding. Great little backup amp IMO. Or find a used Crate Power Block.
http://www.ehx.com/products/44-magnum

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Post subject: Re: 100% failure rate
Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 11:43 am
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shimmilou wrote:
:?

Poor factory solder joints aren't anything new, but have been quite common since around 2005 when the lead-free CRAP solder (commonly referred to as "RoHS" compliant) started to be used by manufacturers, compounding the problem of very thin circuit traces on the boards.


What's the deal with the new lead free solder? does it melt at a higher temperature and therefore is more prone to creating cold solders? Is the old lead solder still available to small boutique builders to use if they wish?


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Post subject: Re: 100% failure rate
Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 12:21 pm
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60/40 tin-lead solder is still available to anyone here in the US. Fender -- and most other manufacturers that rely on export sales across the puddle -- chose to standardize on it specifically to kowtow to its European clientele and their bureaucratic penchant for pointless over-regulation. And we here all pay the price because of this.

Ironically, electronic equipment for military, commercial, or aviation-related purposes destined for Europe is exempt from this requirement. Make of that what you will.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 100% failure rate
Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 3:18 pm
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63supro wrote:
I tried the Electro Harmonix 44 Magnum and for around $150 it's pretty loud and decent sounding. Great little backup amp IMO. Or find a used Crate Power Block.
http://www.ehx.com/products/44-magnum


Wow, the peace of mind of carrying one of those would be invaluable. Very nice gadget.


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Post subject: Re: 100% failure rate
Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 5:36 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
60/40 tin-lead solder is still available to anyone here in the US. Fender -- and most other manufacturers that rely on export sales across the puddle -- chose to standardize on it specifically to kowtow to its European clientele and their bureaucratic penchant for pointless over-regulation. And we here all pay the price because of this.

Ironically, electronic equipment for military, commercial, or aviation-related purposes destined for Europe is exempt from this requirement. Make of that what you will.

Arjay


Guess the pros in Europe don't like cold solder joints. LOL

And when I think of all the lead I sniffed during my tour. Never had one of my joints come loose though.

Art


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Post subject: Re: 100% failure rate
Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 11:34 pm
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Art1 wrote:
And when I think of all the lead I sniffed during my tour. Never had one of my joints come loose though.


The durability/reliability requirement is a lot more stringent for military-grade equipment. It's noteworthy that Leo himself insisted on this same standard back in the day. I think that's a teachable moment for *somebody*......

:wink:

Arjay

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