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Post subject: Princeton Reverb Reissue and Super Champ 112 enclosure?
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:09 am
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Hi folks,

I'm thinking about buying the Princeton Reverb but am concerned about onstage volume so am also considering the SC112 enclosure. The SC112 has INPUT IMPEDANCE: 8 Ω
POWER HANDLING: 80W (continuous) whilst the princeton manual says:

INTERNAL SPEAKER—Plug-in connection for the 8Ω internal
speaker. A speaker must always be connected at this jack when
the amplifier is ON. A speaker impedance load of 8Ω should
be used to avoid distortion or damage to the amplifier. When
using only the internal speaker jack, a speaker impedance load.

EXTERNAL SPEAKER - Plug-in connection for an external
speaker. This jack is wired in parallel with the INTERNAL
SPEAKER JACK {M} and affects the speaker impedance load.
Use 8Ω minimum total. To use the external speaker output, first
disconnect the internal speaker. Then connect a 16Ω speaker
load (minimum) to the internal speaker jack and another 16Ω
speaker load (minimum) the external speaker jack.

Would I have to/be able to disconnect the internal speaker cable and plug in to the cab that way? Is there any issue running the 15 watt Princeton with the 80watt handling cab?

Any help would be much appreciated.


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Post subject: Re: Princeton Reverb Reissue and Super Champ 112 enclosure?
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:01 am
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The Super Champ 1x12" cab will work fine with the Princeton. No problem with the 80W speaker, remember that cab is designed for the 15Watt SCX2 head. Just plug the cabinet into the internal speaker jack for the Princeton and your good to go.


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Post subject: Re: Princeton Reverb Reissue and Super Champ 112 enclosure?
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:27 am
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Hi davidjmcginty,

These manuals, and widely varying "warnings" can be confusing to say the least. The part about "damaging the amp" is right there behind "must use a speaker on the main jack" part, under the title "Internal Speaker". In this case, as with most tube amps, keeping the impedance matched as indicated is only about getting full power from the amp. You are not going to harm the amp if you stay within a two to one impedance mismatch either high or low. The damage to a tube amp can come from using it with no speaker attached, or too high an impedance speaker. For tube amps rated at 8 ohms, it is perfectly fine to use them with a 4 or 16 ohm speaker, or combination of internal or external speakers. As far as impedance for the speaker load, there are two "sweet spots" for tube amps, one for most power out (math), and one for best sound (opinion/taste), and the two don't always coincide. Perfectly fine to plug an external 8 ohm cab into the external jack while using the internal speaker plugged into the internal jack. You might find that an 8 ohm total load sounds best, or that the 4 ohm or 16 ohm combination sounds best, either way is fine.

Examples.
With a C600 which is a 4 ohm amp, I find that using an 8 ohm speaker(s) sounds better than a 4 ohm speaker(s). For my Twkr, I prefer the sound of the amp set to 16 ohms, using an 8 ohm 1x12 cab.

Keep in mind, that the impedance of a speaker is a nominal value, calculated at a specific frequency. The impedance of a speaker varies with the frequency applied to it. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: Princeton Reverb Reissue and Super Champ 112 enclosure?
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:56 am
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Thanks a lot for the advice folks! Really helpful.

If I understand you right shimmilou using the 8 ohm cabinet as an extension with the internal speaker in use also will make a total load of 16 ohms which is fine because it is still within the 2:1 ratio? Is that right?


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Post subject: Re: Princeton Reverb Reissue and Super Champ 112 enclosure?
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:53 am
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davidjmcginty wrote:
Thanks a lot for the advice folks! Really helpful.

If I understand you right shimmilou using the 8 ohm cabinet as an extension with the internal speaker in use also will make a total load of 16 ohms which is fine because it is still within the 2:1 ratio? Is that right?


The two speakers connected in unison will yield 4 ohms total.

The amp's speaker jacks are wired in parallel.

HTH

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Princeton Reverb Reissue and Super Champ 112 enclosure?
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:13 pm
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Thanks for the reply Arjay. But at 4 ohms things will still be ok because it is 2:1 ratio yeah?

(Sorry I'm a bit dense about this stuff)


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Post subject: Re: Princeton Reverb Reissue and Super Champ 112 enclosure?
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:06 pm
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Theoretically, yes.

But many people espouse that opinion based on the robust construction of Fender's original iron as used in vintage amps. Does it hold true for the modern re-issues? I cannot say with certainty. I know I've often used my Twin Reverb re-issue in conjunction with an 8-ohm extension cabinet, representing a total load of roughly 2.6 ohms to the amp without a problem (the TRRI's specified impedance is 4 ohms). Vintage Woodward-Schumacher trannies were built like proverbial Sherman tanks but frankly, some of Fender's modern iron does not look that sturdy. Let your conscience guide your actions......and switch off immediately if you see or smell smoke.

:lol:

HTH

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Princeton Reverb Reissue and Super Champ 112 enclosure?
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:58 pm
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Cheers Arjay. Great advice. Think I'll pick up a Princeton and see how I go for a few shows before looking at the cab.

Thanks folks.


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Post subject: Re: Princeton Reverb Reissue and Super Champ 112 enclosure?
Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:58 am
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Your Princeton Reverb has ample power to easily drive a pair of speakers. This non-reverb silverface Princeton is the world's loudest 12-watt amp......

Image

If you find a need for additional coverage in a live-gig situation you might consider buying an 8-ohm extension cabinet with 2 x 10's or 2 x 12's and merely disconnecting the amp's internal speaker altogether.

HTH

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Princeton Reverb Reissue and Super Champ 112 enclosure?
Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:34 pm
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+1.

I have an inexpensive 1x12 closed back cab I bought used off eBay and for some gigs will run that with the internal 1x10. Nice combination.

Your Princeton definitely can drive a pair of speakers. You'd be amazed how loud even a 5 watt amp can sound -- we recorded a few demo tracks live, and for a few songs I swapped in my Dr. Z Mini Z (5 watts) for my Showman through a 2x12 Fender cab loaded with Warehouse speakers. I had to turn down...

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