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Post subject: Supersonic 22 Impedance and Effect Loop
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:52 pm
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I'm considering getting one of these, but am confused with regard to using an external speaker cabinet, and wondering if my idea for use of the effects loop is workable.

There are two parallel speaker jacks on the rear panel and writing stating "8 ohm minimum". The combo's internal speaker is 8 ohm meaning that it cannot be used with any cabinet. I know that certain posters hold to the premise that a 2X mismatch is OK, but let's for the moment stick with Fender's recommendation.

What can the logic and intent of this design configuration be? I emailed Fender asking this question and they have ignored my question :evil:

Secondly, has anyone put a clean boost pedal in the loop so that when the amps' footswitch activates the effect loop, it serves as a volume boost for solos, regardless of channel? (This way the pedal could be left on, adjacent to the amp and eliminate the need for either a battery or power 'out front' and multiple lengthy cables.) :?

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 22 Impedance and Effect Loop
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:51 pm
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IM4Tone wrote:
..., but let's for the moment stick with Fender's recommendation.

What can the logic and intent of this design configuration be? I emailed Fender asking this question and they have ignored my question...


OK, their recommendation is, if you use external speakers, use one with an "8 ohm Minimum", or two speakers of 8 ohms total for both speakers (ie two 16 ohm speakers cabs). That means it's intended to be used with the internal 8 ohm speaker and an external 8 ohm speaker cab at the same time. I doubt that the designers were retarded, and I am equally sure that they would not provide external speaker jacks if using said jacks would cause harm to the amp. The labeling however, leaves a little to be desired.

Wouldn't it be silly to see a warning like this?

"Warning! Don't use the external speaker jacks that we put on your amp, they're only there to confuse people." :lol:

And, the fact that there is no such warning on the amp is a clue. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 22 Impedance and Effect Loop
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:03 am
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shimmilou wrote:
OK, their recommendation is, if you use external speakers, use one with an "8 ohm Minimum", or two speakers of 8 ohms total for both speakers (ie two 16 ohm speakers cabs). That means it's intended to be used with the internal 8 ohm speaker and an external 8 ohm speaker cab at the same time. I doubt that the designers were retarded, and I am equally sure that they would not provide external speaker jacks if using said jacks would cause harm to the amp. The labeling however, leaves a little to be desired.

Let me quote exactly what is said:
Above the two speaker jacks...Parallel Speaker Outputs...8 ohm minimum TOTAL (22W) They have capitalized TOTAL, not me.
Below the two jacks....Internal Speaker...External Speaker

Also in the manual it says: A speaker MUST be plugged into the Internal jack when the Super-Sonic amplifier is ON or damage may occur.....
So how do you come up with "That means it's intended to be used with the internal 8 ohm speaker and an external 8 ohm speaker cab at the same time"? That of course as you know is 4 ohms. And how is it so obvious that it was not intended to remove the internal speaker and plug in two 16 ohm cabs? Other Fender amps do not read this way.

Do you know for a fact what you have stated, or are you just guessing based on what would seem to be more appropriate? I can do that too, but designers can sometimes do things that may not make sense to others without "being retarded".

My hope was to be able to run an 8 ohm extension cab while the internal speaker is connected. I have a BDRI and a matching extension cab with a similar appearing setup, but the instructions and labels are not like w/ the SS22. In fact, the instructions describe the option of placing an "open" plug in the internal speaker jack and running a 4 ohm extension cab alone. Are you guessing this too is OK even with the "8 ohm TOTAL" warning?

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 22 Impedance and Effect Loop
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:33 am
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"Back in the day" Fender over-built their output trannies to withstand a 100% impedance mis-match in either direction with little fear of "meltdown" except in the case of bass amps, where the combination of low-frequency/low-impedance could often represent a "dead short" to the tranny's secondary coil. Thus, it was relatively safe to run an 8-ohm guitar amp (such as a Deluxe Reverb or a Princeton Reverb) at either 16 ohms or even 4-ohms.

Whether FMIC continues today with this traditional policy of specifying hardy transformers is unknown. However, I frequently run a TRRI with an 8-ohm extension cab representing a total system impedance of around 2.6 ohms without problems. Your Supersonic's output jack markings are ambiguously vague to be certain, but shimmilou is giving you the facts as we understand them to be. I'm betting your amp can comfortably handle a second 8-ohm load without issue.

HTH

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 22 Impedance and Effect Loop
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:18 am
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Well put, and thanks Retroverbial.

I would add, that I can't find even one instance on this forum, where anyone has posted that their amp was working fine, then they plugged in an ext speaker cab and the amp smoked. :idea: We should keep in mind that a speaker impedance rating is a nominal value derived at a specific frequency (typically 1KHz). The actual impedance of the speaker varies with the frequency applied to it, and many times during the cycle, the speaker impedance is not "matched" to the amp.

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 22 Impedance and Effect Loop
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:11 pm
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I did get a response from Fender, so here it is:

"We’re sorry about the delayed response in getting back to you,…we’ve recently moved our corporate offices and are a bit behind on email as a result.

The 22 can push a 4ohm load,…so really you can just plug another 8ohm cab into the extension speaker jack. The higher the number the lighter the load,…it wants to see a minimum 8ohm load. If say…. you were to run it pushing just a 16ohm load,..you’d burn it up."


So the ambiguity is clarified. :| I don't quite understand "The higher the number the lighter the load", but all I really wanted to know about was the ability to plug an 8 ohm ext. cab into the parallel jack, so now I can proceed.

Thanks to Shimmilou and Arjay for your responses.

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 22 Impedance and Effect Loop
Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:45 am
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The amp is designed to run 8 ohm load in the internal speaker jack alone or 8 ohm in internal along with 8 ohm in the external jack. You cannot run without a load to the internal. Each jack can also be plugged to a 8 ohm cabinet. A cabinet can consist of multiple speakers as long as it's output is 8 ohm. When both jacks are used the amp is seeing 4 ohm.

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