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Post subject: At the end of my rope with my HR Deville
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:38 am
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I have an early 2000's HR DeVille that I have fallen out of love with.
I had it re-tubed about a year ago and had that pesky volume spike issue 'fixed'.
Somehow that seems to have neutered the amp!
The problem: I can't stand the sound/tone that I'm getting out of it these days.
I am especially disappointed with the DRIVE and MORE DRIVE channels....they sound like crap!
I'm sure that mods exist somewhere that will improve those channels....if so....could you please point me in the right direction? Just something I can give to my amp guy and say "Do This to my amp".
I'm at the point now where I'm ready to sell the damned thing!

I recently got a Marshall JTM 60 and had it re-tubed and properly biased and this thing is kicking the DeVille's butt.......I play through the Marshall all the time now!

Help.........

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Last edited by HWY1Strat on Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: At the end of my rope with my HR Deville
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:49 am
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Its most likely that the Marshall is the sound you have been looking for, I bet the deville will never give you the overdriven sound you want.

The only fender's I have found that give me the overdrive sound I want are the real tweeds, 5E3's, champs, even the bassmans or close clones, the plastic (fake) sounding overdrives of the hotrods and devilles have never appealed to me at all.

Real tweed circuits +crank the volume = sweet overdriven tone !

I can get the DRRI sounding great with good pedals, onboard added gain seems to steal the soul of an amp.

Sell It !

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Post subject: Re: At the end of my rope with my HR Deville
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:19 am
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I agree with blues bondsman, you won't get a Marshall sound on the Dvl without some effects. I have used a POD with my HRDvl 4x10 and can get some good Marshall tones, but the drive channel is nowhere near there on its own. Do you have the 2x12 or 4x10?

This is interesting:

HWY1Strat wrote:
..I had it re-tubed about a year ago and had that pesky volume spike issue 'fixed'. Somehow that seems to have neutered the amp!...


I gather from your statement about "falling out of love" that you were "in love" with it before the tube change. Whatever this "volume spike" means, it seems clear that the "fix" and the choice of tubes were not to your liking.

I don't know why you aren't complaining to whoever did the work on your amp for you, as your post directly pointed to that time as to when the "problem" occurred. What kind of tubes did you choose, and was the bias adjusted properly? What is the volume spike, and what exactly was done to fix it?

For me, the Dvl with effects pedal(s), and/or the right set of tubes can give some great sounds, from Fender cleans to Marshall type distortion.

Am I missing something, or is this very obvious? (ie tube choice/"fix") :wink:

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Post subject: Re: At the end of my rope with my HR Deville
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:26 am
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My early 2000's HRD was donated. I didn't have the conscience to sell it to someone knowing what a POS it was. Goodwill & good riddance. I make do with a LP Jr, SCXD, DRRI and a few peddals...


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Post subject: Re: At the end of my rope with my HR Deville
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:38 pm
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You mean the one that you hooked up the pedals wrong and caused the squealing? No problems reported by you before that. You were so vague about the amp after that, so I have no confidence that it wasn't an eye-dee-ten-tee error that caused your problems. :wink:

That was the fastest "using my 4x10.... to POS" that I've ever seen. Still not one hint of an actual problem described by you. To say that your amp "started doing everything bad described on this forum" is a huge load. :(

And you claimed to have 2 of the 4x10s, what happened to the other one?

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---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


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Post subject: Re: At the end of my rope with my HR Deville
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:06 pm
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Yes sir, two of em. A mistake on my behalf, too much for the man cave! When the donated HR Deville started crackling / popping and making harsh noises even in standby I sold the good DeVille. Figured I'd get the donated DeVille fixed but after time and reading how HR's get fixed and break get fixed again and break and so on......POS Goodwill, good riddance.


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Post subject: Re: At the end of my rope with my HR Deville
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:47 pm
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That's too bad. Had you described the popping/crackling even once before, the advice might have been to replace the preamp tubes that you might have fried while jacking around with pedals. So, the other HRDvl worked fine, just too loud? Good of you to finally point that out, thanks.

Sounds like your reading was more like skimming, you missed the parts where it was pointed out the Dvl is NOT a Dlx, nor a BJr, nor a Pro Jr. It is spurious to lump all of the amp problems into one group, as if they share common problems exclusive to the whole line. And rarely does anyone have to fix and refix the amp several times, that is just not the norm. :idea:

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---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


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Post subject: Re: At the end of my rope with my HR Deville
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:38 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
That's too bad. Had you described the popping/crackling even once before, the advice might have been to replace the preamp tubes that you might have fried while jacking around with pedals. So, the other HRDvl worked fine, just too loud? Good of you to finally point that out, thanks.

Sounds like your reading was more like skimming, you missed the parts where it was pointed out the Dvl is NOT a Dlx, nor a BJr, nor a Pro Jr. It is spurious to lump all of the amp problems into one group, a s if they share common problems exclusive to the whole line. And rarely does anyone have to fix and refix the amp several times, that is just not the norm. :idea:




Thanks shimmilou, I needed that! My comments where unnecessary and not helpful for HWY1Strat. No excuses...


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Post subject: Re: At the end of my rope with my HR Deville
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:41 pm
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Sorry to hear this about your amp. If you want, I will buy it from you.. Let me know.

Pooch


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Post subject: Re: At the end of my rope with my HR Deville
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:17 am
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HWY1Strat, this is a wild shot in the dark... but by your description, it sounds like the output power tubes maybe biased way too cold. Have you recently checked (or have a tech) check them?

Really sounds like the amp is running in Class B range... with a ton of crossover distortion added to a very cold tone.


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Post subject: Re: At the end of my rope with my HR Deville
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:34 am
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HWY1Strat wrote:
I have an early 2000's HR DeVille that I have fallen out of love with.
I had it re-tubed about a year ago and had that pesky volume spike issue 'fixed'.
Somehow that seems to have neutered the amp!
.


Did you check bias at this time ? Probably no, output tubes could be worn out or if you are lucky, they only need a bias adjust.
Listen BMT2002Ti 's answer, good advice.


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Post subject: Re: At the end of my rope with my HR Deville (response a tom
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:57 am
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and why not replace the plate resistors...you could have over stressed them a tad with the pedal stuff i skimmed by maybe not. I have a well known L.A. based world class bluesman...buddy since H.S. (i'm 58 now yeah i know born when dirt was in the development stage) 8) he is known by ALL for being a tone God...he has many amps and too many darn guitars...he has mostly fenders probably 30+ amps that is. he has a few blues devilles he had issues with an early one had one of the L.A. guru's whack it...sings...however he has a couple not modified, fixed other than NOS tubes (and mixed current and NOS chassis also) and has had one made into a head using a mojotone cab (maybe custom).

he LOVES them 4x10's too. and he takes any amp he wants to jams down in the 'wood and it can handle the normal fare...frankly though...my freaking new V.King is making me fall in love all over again with my fender guitars and when ya plug a '59 bust bro in it HEAVEN....beasts...love them. Anyway before trashing an amp '"'cuz" been there (a tad manic at times in my past) take it in to a tech for a QUICK cheap look see, after tapping the tubes with a fingernail with the amp on and volume up to where ya can stand it listen for the offending tube (valve for ya Brits). but for the newbie tube guys...tubes do make a difference goggle best 12ax7 tube for instance the tubestore cat comes up with some sweet comparison info in varieties of amplifiers same for other tubes..but if ya listen to the British cats (or me when dealing with an el84 amp) mullards..everybody has an opinion. then there are the old or new tube sockets a gorilla may have wrestled with...read up on tube socket retensioning..the sockets (the pin sockets) loosen up AND AS I AM FINDING OUT ON EVERY FREAKING AMP I HAVE up here..(Fallon's on it's late for some). CORROSION on the tube pins and pin sockets (and jacks RCA connectors for reverbs... even on my "switchcraft" jacks also) SO SO SO i highly recommend this stuff read all about it...it kills..i was a pro studio tech in Hollywood in the late 70's early 80's and we used an earlier version or similar called TWEAK..but this stuff Deoxit D or Gold kills...I live on the beach and in three months all my amps have had wonderful rebirths CUZ of it i was having weird problems when their pin sockets corroded..ya do the pins on the tubes also, your guitar jacks, plugs..effects ...loops boxes, racked killer gear costing thousands...EVERY where even your power plug (not LIVE wall sockets, rack mounted surge protected AC sockets (don't laugh...seen it)...and the world is a better place here is the link to 'da garbage..... http://www.caig.com/ audiophiles bleed this stuff. Now back to the pops, spits blah blah...if tubes are not the issues (or the sockets) it may be time to replace the PLATE resistors (Google it) typically on a fender 100K 1/2w or 1w i up mine to 2w (not overkill for some folk BTW) most classic and even the new stuff use this value as a resistor..a tech with a scope can see it in a heartbeat if one or more triodes are acting up making (amplifiying the thermally generated pops noise etc common in carbon comp resistors (they can be noise generators when over stressed, aged or in general) ..there are better ...but the purist sometimes prefer C.C. resistors)...BTW have some one do it for you unless you understand DEATH IS NOT ALWAYS A RECOVERABLE OPTION and it pisses off your friends (heck man i was fried last Sunday during the Denver game) i was setting the bias on my vibro king and had my plastic screw driver in the pot slug (from inside) and my wife came to the lab/studio/cave and asked about dinner.....trust me 465Vdc can make an old due fart chickens....i'm an E.E. also so BEEN there many times..BE CAREFUL buy a book, watch youtube vids on doing just that -replacing the PLATE resistors watch vids on soldering....and working with printed circuit boards ...blah blah outta here (PS next time you wanna dump your "garbage" give it to a school...they need stuff like that...eh? now i be outta here :mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: At the end of my rope with my HR Deville
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:14 pm
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Check out the Supersonic mate


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Post subject: Re: At the end of my rope with my HR Deville
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:34 am
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You know, though i find A LOT of issues with this line of amplifiers (excluding the Blues JR which is pretty solid amp), adjusting the bias may improve the all around tone. If you dont know how to check it based on the power tubes you have in there (65-70mA is about the average setting). Just plug in a guitar (be very careful not to touch anything inside the amp because it will be powered up and off of standby. strum the guitar, then turn the bias know just a little bit clockwise. It may improve what you're hearing. I recently modified my DRRI, that has no middle control. So i replaced the 6.7K resistor that keeps the midrange at a fixed point. I put a 15K in the NORMAL channel, giving it a Tweed sound, and replaced the 6.7K in the VIBRATO channel with a 10K trimpot, that i soldered so its outside the PCB board so i can get to is by just sliding the chassis out, and not having to take off the board that the pots are afixed to. So i can asjust the mids anywhere from1K up to about 9.75K (they never go to 10K like they are rated at). And now, the VIBRATO channel sounds much more like a real 1965 DR, and the NORMAL sounds like a Tweed.
SO there are small things you can do. But id start with the bias


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Post subject: Re: At the end of my rope with my HR Deville
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:39 pm
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Check out this site:
http://www.justinholton.com/hotrod/bias.html

You will find out a ton of info.. Also I have worked on these amps quite extensively and have found many things on that website to be helpful! In addition, if you look at the schematic, Change out the tone caps the following are the upgrades I has performed:
C5 change to a .1uF @ 600vdc Spargue Orange Drop Capicitor
C6 change to a .022uF @ 600vdc Spargue Orange Drop Capicitor
C7 upgrade to a 250uF @ 1 kv Silver Mica
My analogy would be as stock it's like breathing under water through a stir straw.. After the upgrade it would be like breathing forced air.. The 600v caps will give it a greater buffer and allow it to breathe!!

Good luck!


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