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Post subject: Re: My Weber 5F6A Bassman Build-Up Thread
Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:18 pm
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Butterscotch wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
Butterscotch wrote:
A 5E3...but with the addition of reverb! :)


Actually, I have one of the Boss FRV-1 63 Fender Reverb pedals and it is quite good. Not as good as the real thing, but very convincing.


I've often been tempted to get me one of those!


For the price I think it is worth it. It sounds really nice with the 5F6A clone and my modded Champion 600. Definitely better than the reverb in my Blues Deluxe Reissue.

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Post subject: Re: My Weber 5F6A Bassman Build-Up Thread
Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:26 pm
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Thanks...I will investigate!


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Post subject: Re: My Weber 5F6A Bassman Build-Up Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:02 pm
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A minor problem with the pine cabinet has arisen recently.

I have notice that with the amp turned up loud or with the gain cranked on my Fulltone FDM-2, that there is a nasty resonance coming from the top panel. I isolated it by simply pressing on the cabinet in a number of places. I noticed that pressing down on the handle stops the resonance as well as just pressing on the wood panel.

I loosened and then retightened the four bolts holding the handle in place (they screw into blind nuts inside the cabinet) which helped a little but did not entirely eliminate the resonance. I do not believe that there is anything touching the panel inside the cabinet except the bolts mounting the chassis to the cab and they are not in the area of the cab that is resonating. I'll have to open up the back panel and flip the amp over to check.

I was thinking that maybe applying a couple of layers of something like heavy gaffer tape or maybe the felt half of industrial strength Velcro like that used on pedalboards to the underside of the panel would change the resonant characteristics of it enough to reduce and maybe eliminate the buzz. Any suggestion for something better to use than gaffer tape or any other suggestions to eliminate the buzz?

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Post subject: Re: My Weber 5F6A Bassman Build-Up Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:14 pm
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Maybe a wire or loose screw/nut on the chassis????

Hmmm...I'd take the back panel off first and inspect if anything loose is visible.
If nothing apparent, I'd turn it on with the guitar plugged in and strum a bit while looking and gently probing to see if it could be isolated.

Sorry for not being much help...

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Post subject: Re: My Weber 5F6A Bassman Build-Up Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:49 pm
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As I stated in my post, I have isolated the buzz to a resonance in the top pine panel. There are no loose screws.

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Post subject: Re: My Weber 5F6A Bassman Build-Up Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:09 pm
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No one has any suggestions for killing the resonance from the top panel? :(

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Post subject: Re: My Weber 5F6A Bassman Build-Up Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:15 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
...I was thinking that maybe applying a couple of layers of something like heavy gaffer tape or maybe the felt half of industrial strength Velcro...


Maybe a little strip of something like that between the top of the chassis and top of cab?

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Post subject: Re: My Weber 5F6A Bassman Build-Up Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:03 pm
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Were this my amp, I'd disassemble it and carefully examine the underside of the cab's top panel, with special attention to the finger joints at each corner. As well, I'd look for any evidence of longtitudinal cracking or fissures through the grain as well. Were I to find any evidence of either, I'd try working some Gorilla Glue into the areas that seemed wonky. If it were my amp, that is......

HTH

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Post subject: Re: My Weber 5F6A Bassman Build-Up Thread
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:19 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Were this my amp, I'd disassemble it and carefully examine the underside of the cab's top panel, with special attention to the finger joints at each corner. As well, I'd look for any evidence of longtitudinal cracking or fissures through the grain as well. Were I to find any evidence of either, I'd try working some Gorilla Glue into the areas that seemed wonky. If it were my amp, that is......

HTH

Arjay

I think Arjay may be onto something. All wood has a resonance frequency but even if that resonant frequency is in the audio range there still shouldn't be a buzz unless there's a crack or joint separation. Did you build the cab or buy it?

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Post subject: Re: My Weber 5F6A Bassman Build-Up Thread
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:39 am
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Shimmi/Arjay/MHowell,

All good suggestions.

I do plan on opening up the amp this weekend for a close examination. So far all I have had time to do is examine the detailed photos I took of the amp assembly (what I posted here is only a small subset of all the photos I took). They show no evidence of a bad joint or any cracking of the wood, but they were taken several months ago. Also, there is really nothing in the amp assembly that would stress the wood or joints to the point of damage and the amp has never been dropped or been out of my climate controlled studio. But I also need to check things due to the proximity of the power transformer and cap can doghouse to the top two speaker magnets just to make sure that nothing shifted during assembly. The cabinet is a Ted Weber cab that came with the kit and is assembled quite well.

Here is one of the photos:

Image

I can stop the resonance by pressing on the control panel where it slides under the cab (but you have to press moderately hard), or while pressing lightly on either the amp handle or the top panel where the handle is attached.

One other thing I noted while assembling the amp is that the original 5F6As had a strap that runs from one of the power transformer bolts to the cabinet top where it attaches with a bolt to the top. This provides for a third attachment point of the chassis to the cab. The kit does not have that strap and I have not tried to add it since the amp is stationary and not subject to heavy handling. It might be worth investigating how to add that strap, but I have been reluctant to loosen any of the bolts that hold the trasformer together. Anybody see any potential for harm in removing one bolt to add the strap?

FWIW, the resonance occurs strongest at the 10th fret of the "D" string with some resonance at the 9th and 11th. It really does take the amp being cranked (above "8") or with the Fulldrive 2M gain turned up with lots of mids. It does not vibrate with the OD off or the amp set at "6" and below. Needless to say, I don't hear it all THAT often. :lol:

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Last edited by bluesky636 on Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: My Weber 5F6A Bassman Build-Up Thread
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:15 am
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bluesky636 wrote:
One other thing I noted while assembling the amp is that the original 5F6As had a strap that runs from one of the power transformer bolts to the cabinet top where it attaches with a bolt to the top. This provides for a third attachment point of the chassis to the cab. The kit does not have that strap and I have not tried to add it since the amp is stationary and not subject to heavy handling. It might be worth investigating how to add that strap, but I have been reluctant to loosen any of the bolts that hold the trasformer together. Anybody see any potential for harm in removing one bolt to add the strap?


The odds are good that Leo discovered the exact same sonic anomaly as you and that was the "fix" he came up with. There's no other plausible explanation for the presence of that extra support strap on the original 5F6's, Bill. I don't see that you'll cause any harm by effecting the same remedy.

JMOOC......

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: My Weber 5F6A Bassman Build-Up Thread
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:15 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
One other thing I noted while assembling the amp is that the original 5F6As had a strap that runs from one of the power transformer bolts to the cabinet top where it attaches with a bolt to the top. This provides for a third attachment point of the chassis to the cab. The kit does not have that strap and I have not tried to add it since the amp is stationary and not subject to heavy handling. It might be worth investigating how to add that strap, but I have been reluctant to loosen any of the bolts that hold the trasformer together. Anybody see any potential for harm in removing one bolt to add the strap?


The odds are good that Leo discovered the exact same sonic anomaly as you and that was the "fix" he came up with. There's no other plausible explanation for the presence of that extra support strap on the original 5F6's, Bill. I don't see that you'll cause any harm by effecting the same remedy.

JMOOC......

Arjay


The reissue 59 Bassman as well as the reissue 57 Twin and EC Twinolux have the added mount from the PT to the cab top as can be seen in catalog photos showing the third bolt in the top panel. I remember some threads asking what that bolt was for. I did not know myself untill I found some photos on-line of a disassembled vintage 59 Bassman. Given the accuracy of Weber's kit, it is suprising that they did not include it. Should be fairly simple to implement if I can get over my fear of unbolting one corner of the PT. :shock: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: My Weber 5F6A Bassman Build-Up Thread
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:10 am
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I'm ruling out a crack in the wood. It's possible that there is a crack only on the side covered by the tweed but I doubt it.

My intuition (which could be wrong) tells me that if something is buzzing it must to be two parts vibrating against each other.

Maybe the chassis needs some isolation from the cabinet? Soft plastic washers?

Not sure how the strap thing works? Does it stiffen things up - changing the resonance frequency? If we can shift that sympathetic frequency from the 10th fret of the D string to the 28th fret of the high E string then the problem is solved. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: My Weber 5F6A Bassman Build-Up Thread
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:30 am
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That's why I suggested what I said above..."I'd take the back panel off first and inspect if anything loose is visible.
If nothing apparent, I'd turn it on with the guitar plugged in and strum a bit while looking and gently probing to see if it could be isolated."

And again, that's with access to the inside of the cab. So you can isolate from the inside. Not the outside.

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Post subject: Re: My Weber 5F6A Bassman Build-Up Thread
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:48 pm
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mhowell wrote:
I'm ruling out a crack in the wood. It's possible that there is a crack only on the side covered by the tweed but I doubt it.

My intuition (which could be wrong) tells me that if something is buzzing it must to be two parts vibrating against each other.

Maybe the chassis needs some isolation from the cabinet? Soft plastic washers?

Not sure how the strap thing works? Does it stiffen things up - changing the resonance frequency? If we can shift that sympathetic frequency from the 10th fret of the D string to the 28th fret of the high E string then the problem is solved. :lol:


After I inspect things for any interference, I'm going to first try loosening and retightening the two bolts that attach the chassis to the cab. Sometimes that is enough to change a resonance as pressure is released and reapplied to different areas and different tightnesses (Is that a word? :lol: ).

Here are a couple of photos of a vintage Bassman. You can see the third bolt on top of the cab and the strap that attaches to it mounted on the PT:

Image

Image

Image

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Last edited by bluesky636 on Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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