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Post subject: Two Questions Re 65 Twin Reverb Reissue
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:29 am
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I am playing guitar for three years. I have an acoustic guitar as well as an Fender Custom Shop 69 Relic Stratocaster. Until today I have been playing with various amps and borrowed a solid state amp from the neighbor, but now I want to buy my own amplifier.

I was in a well stocked shop and tried about 7 different amps (all tube amps) for about 4 hours. Without knowing anything about the different models I was really impressed with the Fender 65er Twin Reverb Combo. It just seemed so very much superior compared with the other amps in respect of sound, quality, robustness, and power. Somehow like comparing a good professional tool with toys. I was also positively surprised when I came home and researched the internet for more information on this and the other amps. The price is no problem for me, especially since I am not planning on buying further amps in the foreseeable future.

However two questions still bother me and I would be obliged if some of you could help me:

1. Does the Twin Reverb Reissue suit for having at home, practicing in small rooms, or do you have to play it loud to get it sound decent?

2. Is it true that you have to be lucky to get a good amp with good tubes, or can you trust that all new Twin Reverbs from a respected dealer are of good quality?


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Post subject: Re: Two Questions Re 65 Twin Reverb Reissue
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:02 am
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I've been using Fender Twin Reverbs for most of my 45+ years playing the guitar. I currently own two -- one is a '65 re-issue while the other is a '78 silverface.

The TR starts to sound its best when the volume control exceeds "4". However, it was designed at the outset to deliver ultra-loud/ultra-clean performance -- it will never yield the warm compressive breakup of say, a blackface Bassman or a Super Reverb or a Deluxe Reverb. To get any overdrive from the TR requires artificially stimulating the pre-amp with pedals. And it will be loud, perhaps too loud for many playing situations. Especially for those unfamiliar with the nuances of the design. Increasingly fewer venues are appropriate for the magnitude of the TR's output potential and you might be better served with a smaller re-issue platform such as the Deluxe Reverb.

As for tubes and their quality (or lack thereof), that's becoming a more significant problem of late -- especially the OEM types found in many new amps from a variety of manufacturers. There is good glass to be had, but it takes time to figure out which brands work the best and usually requires some additional cost. The original tubes in my '78 TR (all US-built Westinghouse and Sylvania) lasted nearly 23 years before they finally tired out and required replacement. Conversely, I've had some relatively fresh recent-production tubes in near-new amps from the '90s fail the "smoke test" in less than six months.

Thus, tubes are a bit of a crap-shoot......especially contemporary tubes built overseas.

HTH

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Two Questions Re 65 Twin Reverb Reissue
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:40 am
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I understand that the Twin Reverb is made to sound clean even at high volumes and I am not intending to get it to break up or distorted over the volume control. I might consider getting some sort of distortion pedal in the future if I want something else than just clean sound and I understand that the Twin is suited for that.

My question was rather if it sounds OK if you play it not loud (Volume control at 1 or 2)? I heard both, i.e.: (a) A high power amp also sounds better than a smaller oner if played low volume (like a good hifi set), but also that (b) a Twin should be allowed to be played at high volume.

Again price is not really an issue in this case and I understand that this purchase might be considered an overkill. Will a Twin work out OK in a "bedroom setting" or is it better with a less powerful model?

With respect to tube quality I guess I simply have to test the amp at the store before I take it home. A pity though that a company like Fender has these kind of quality issues with their flagship products. Does not seem very wise at all to save some dollars at this end.


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Post subject: Re: Two Questions Re 65 Twin Reverb Reissue
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:47 am
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I think there is a lot in what Arjay says about the quality of the old tubes. I have an old late seventies Peavey Classic, this was a hybrid with a solid state preamp and a tube power amp. This amp still has the two original Sylvania power tubes that were made in the USA!!


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Post subject: Re: Two Questions Re 65 Twin Reverb Reissue
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:40 am
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IMO Twin Reverb is a too heavey amp and very very loud . Too loud for home . I'll look for another amp


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Post subject: Re: Two Questions Re 65 Twin Reverb Reissue
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:30 am
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floopy wrote:
I understand that the Twin Reverb is made to sound clean even at high volumes and I am not intending to get it to break up or distorted over the volume control. I might consider getting some sort of distortion pedal in the future if I want something else than just clean sound and I understand that the Twin is suited for that.

My question was rather if it sounds OK if you play it not loud (Volume control at 1 or 2)? I heard both, i.e.: (a) A high power amp also sounds better than a smaller oner if played low volume (like a good hifi set), but also that (b) a Twin should be allowed to be played at high volume.

Again price is not really an issue in this case and I understand that this purchase might be considered an overkill. Will a Twin work out OK in a "bedroom setting" or is it better with a less powerful model?

With respect to tube quality I guess I simply have to test the amp at the store before I take it home. A pity though that a company like Fender has these kind of quality issues with their flagship products. Does not seem very wise at all to save some dollars at this end.


Playing a TRRI on "1 or 2" is a waste of a good amp in my opinion.

I think Arjay answered your question a little more subtly than usual when he said:

"Increasingly fewer venues are appropriate for the magnitude of the TR's output potential and you might be better served with a smaller re-issue platform such as the Deluxe Reverb."

A bedroom is definitely one of those inappropriate venues. If you only ever intend to play in your bedroom and have no intentions of gigging, buy the Deluxe Reverb Reissue. Unless you just have to have the bragging rights that a TRRI brings with it.

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Post subject: Re: Two Questions Re 65 Twin Reverb Reissue
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:53 am
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As i wrote above, I certainly understand that many might think that it is a "overkill" or "a waste of good amp" to play it at low volumes. But I did not ask weather a happy amateur needs 85 Watts, but if there are any drawbacks further than the price tag of having a powerful amp.

Still nobody answered my question: Will a smaller amp sound better in a "bedroom setting"? After testing in the shop I actually think no not at all, but I wanted to ask.

For me 200 - 300 USD more or less is not that important, especially since I intend not to buy any further amps. But as stated above: the overall quality of the Twin seemed so much better than the smaller amps (like comparing professional tools with toys IMHO).

I will also use it to play with friends for audience (friends and family). But I am certainly not buying the amp because I think I will playing at big venues. But I will not buy an inferior amp just because I am not a guitar hero.


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Post subject: Re: Two Questions Re 65 Twin Reverb Reissue
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:42 am
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Hi floopy,

Great advice so far. If you want clean at any volume, the TRRI has it covered, hard to beat. If you can turn the volume low enough, the TRRI clean will still be there and sound great, no distortion. It would sound fine at low volumes at home, and could also be cranked up when you want to demolish your house. :lol:

I agree with the others, that although the amp will still sound great at low volumes, using it at home would be like driving a top fuel dragster at 25 MPH in a school zone. :shock: I guess that you could get it up to 40 MPH on the weekend. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Two Questions Re 65 Twin Reverb Reissue
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:20 am
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I don't know anything about guitar amps but even I know it's stupid to buy a 85 watt tube twin for home. It's like the first thing you read when you research buying your first amp.

I have the 20 watt Mustang 1 and the Twin model it has sounds great. I rarely turn it up past 2. It's 99 bucks. I don't get to tell people I have an awesome $1k legendary tube amp but I think the sound is great. You know, I bought a practice amp for practicing.

It sounds to me like you have some cash burning a hole in your pocket and you're going to end up with a twin. Nothing wrong with that.

Good luck.


Last edited by emcron on Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Two Questions Re 65 Twin Reverb Reissue
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:22 am
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floopy wrote:
As i wrote above, I certainly understand that many might think that it is a "overkill" or "a waste of good amp" to play it at low volumes. But I did not ask weather a happy amateur needs 85 Watts, but if there are any drawbacks further than the price tag of having a powerful amp.

Still nobody answered my question: Will a smaller amp sound better in a "bedroom setting"? After testing in the shop I actually think no not at all, but I wanted to ask.

For me 200 - 300 USD more or less is not that important, especially since I intend not to buy any further amps. But as stated above: the overall quality of the Twin seemed so much better than the smaller amps (like comparing professional tools with toys IMHO).

I will also use it to play with friends for audience (friends and family). But I am certainly not buying the amp because I think I will playing at big venues. But I will not buy an inferior amp just because I am not a guitar hero.


Ok. Fine. Regardless of what anyone has said, you clearly have your mind set on a TRRI because you think it is the "best". I got news for you. There are any number of amps out there that are the TRRI's equal or better, for less money and lower power that would be more appropriate to what you are doing. You are basing your decision on a sample of seven amps of which you only identified one - the TRRI. So, based on that, just go out and buy the TRRI. Hopefully the store where you buy it has a liberal return policy so you can actually live with the amp for a few weeks in your home environment. That way you can find out first hand whether it is truely the best amp for your needs or not. Good luck.

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Post subject: Re: Two Questions Re 65 Twin Reverb Reissue
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:57 am
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C'mon now, Bill......

The OP has three years' experience......he knows it all!

:lol:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Two Questions Re 65 Twin Reverb Reissue
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:06 pm
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Thank you all for the advise.

Re shimmilou: Cranking it up to 40 mph (or more) on weekends will not be the problem. My problem is still playing the guitar. Also thank you for answering my question.

Re emcron: I guess in some way I must have too much cash, but I do not consider that a problem as long as I can spend it. According to my experience I have wasted more money buying cheap things that I exchange after a while, than good quality stuff that I use a lot a long time, enjoy, and feel well with. Also why should I buy a smaller amp if I have the room and the opportunity?

Re Mr Bill: Yes I only tested a few amps, but to me it was obvious that the TRRI was quite superior to the other ones and that it will definitely fulfill my needs. Further, from what I understand, I will I have to look quite hard to find a better amp if I am looking for good quality and a clean sound. Or do you disagree on that?

Re Arjay: Why do you think I know it all? Do you not agree that the Twin Reverb is a very good piece of equipment if you compare with smaller amps (this is a rhetorical question)?

All in all I am surprised of the reactions as I did not know that it is such a sensitive topic for a happy amateur to buy a “TRRI”. What is all this snobbish sentiment about, that unless you are playing large gigs you are not worthy a Twin Reverb? We are not talking about a fortune here, more the price of an intermediate TV.


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Post subject: Re: Two Questions Re 65 Twin Reverb Reissue
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:41 pm
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Floopy, the board prolly not being "snobbish" about the purchase of the Twin Reverb, it's just as you improve your guitar skills, you'll find that OD and harmonics of a tube amp is something you may desire. And it's hard to generate those kinda tones outta a powerful, clean amp like a TRRI. Without pedals (which is a digitalized input) or blowing your neighbors outta their house.

As I got better, I appreciated the tones and flexibility of smaller amps--- like single-ended Vibro-Champs more-&-more. And with an efficient speaker, you can get pretty loud. Really, I gig more with my 36-40 watt SF Super Reverb than my BF Twin Reverb. And I practice with the 6V6GT VC's or Princeton than any 6L6GC amp.

This is not to say the TRRI is a bad choice. Ppl are just stating their experiences, based on years of playing. IMHO.


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Post subject: Re: Two Questions Re 65 Twin Reverb Reissue
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:58 pm
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floopy wrote:
Re Mr Bill: Yes I only tested a few amps, but to me it was obvious that the TRRI was quite superior to the other ones and that it will definitely fulfill my needs. Further, from what I understand, I will I have to look quite hard to find a better amp if I am looking for good quality and a clean sound. Or do you disagree on that?


So, what were the other amps you tried? You never bothered to say what you were comparing the TRRI against. Were you playing other amps of equal power? Same size and number of speakers? Were you playing a Frontman and a Mustang or were you playing other boutique amps? What type of music do you play? Blues? Country? Death Metal? Worship? All that goes into selecting an amp. And yeah, I think many people here will readily agree that there are a number of amps that are better than a TRRI in price, performance, power, and reliability. But since you never bothered providing any of your paramaters for choosing an amp, it is impossible to make a recommendation. You had already made up your mind about getting a TRRI so nothing anyone said made any difference. Several of us in so many words told you that while the TRRI will probably sound good at bedroom levels, it would not be the first choice for that use. But your mind was set. So go ahead. Buy your TRRI. Just don't come back here whining and asking questions about how you can control the volume of the thing in your bedroom. :roll:

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Post subject: Re: Two Questions Re 65 Twin Reverb Reissue
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:08 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
Floopy, the board prolly not being "snobbish" about the purchase of the Twin Reverb, it's just as you improve your guitar skills, you'll find that OD and harmonics of a tube amp is something you may desire. And it's hard to generate those kinda tones outta a powerful, clean amp like a TRRI. Without pedals (which is a digitalized input) or blowing your neighbors outta their house.

As I got better, I appreciated the tones and flexibility of smaller amps--- like single-ended Vibro-Champs more-&-more. And with an efficient speaker, you can get pretty loud. Really, I gig more with my 36-40 watt SF Super Reverb than my BF Twin Reverb. And I practice with the 6V6GT VC's or Princeton than any 6L6GC amp.

This is not to say the TRRI is a bad choice. Ppl are just stating their experiences, based on years of playing. IMHO.


Ok and thank you. This is actually the first good argument for a smaller amp that I have come across. I thought however (and I confess again if this has been somewhat unclear, that I hardly know anything about making music), that I would be purchasing a pedal if I get bored with clean sound sometime in the future. Is it a waste of good amp to put a pedal before a TRRI? I also played on smaller tube amps (we had a small old Fender amp at my guitar school), but even that I couldn't really distort very much over the volume.

The reason why I am so into the Twin Reverb however is that while testing it made such a strong impression on me (before I knew its history). As I wrote above it was like a good solid professional tool compared to a bunch of toys. I looked at the price-tags and was stunned that the price difference was so small. I also noticed that many of my more experienced guitar friends keep on changing and buying new amps quite a lot, while I would prefer to have one amp that I can grow into without having the urge of getting something different.


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