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Post subject: Re: Hot rod deluxe vs Egnater
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:20 am
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My HRDlx died not once, but three time on stage no less and numerous times at rehearsals. No, the HRDlx isn't a seriously expensive amp, but neither was my Twin, Bandmaster Vibrolux Reverb, Deluxe Reverb and I paid $150 for my Champ. I never had problems with my Sunn Scepter, Dano 25 or my Silvertone Twin Twelve. I still have a 73 Pignose that still works well. My Egnater head was less than I paid for my HRDlx and not much more with a 112 Cab. Again, after more than a year and a half, Zero problems. I play it daily, gig it a couple times a week and rehearse a few times a week. Even my home made pedals that I burned the boards for are still working.


Thanks for sharing that with us...I would be equally pissed if my amp futzed out in the middle of a gig! My understanding is that Fender has noted and worked to address the issues that their Mexican line of guitars and amps have. It sounds more like a quality control issue than anything else but that, I am sure, does little to change the bitter taste in your mouth from buying a "dog with fleas". I hear ya man, and now I sit with my fingers crossed hoping my Hrdlx doesn't crap out on me in an important moment. Then again there is a boutique shop up the street from me that swear they can do a few mods to a Hot Rod and get the damn thing running like it should! Ima' look into it!


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Post subject: Re: Hot rod deluxe vs Egnater
Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:06 am
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mortalengines wrote:
My understanding is that Fender has noted and worked to address the issues that their Mexican line of guitars and amps have.


I had a HR Deville US version for 2 years. It had a nice sound to it. Different than a blackface, but nice & useable still. I think more time needs to lapse with the HRIII's before guitarists should throw them under the bus with the II's. Hopefully time will show that the improvements made are worthy ones so don't worry about it.

The acceptable price to pay for an amp made in USA, England, Mexico, China, or anywhere else is different for each individual based on what is important to them.

I've read this post in it's entirety & would like to share my thoughts. I own a Mexican made Martin that has been a gigging workhorse for over 300 shows so far. It's a great guitar. It cost me less than 1/2 the price of a similar American made version. It's only solid wood on the face of the body, the rest is HPL. It's not Martin's TOP end however, it's a nicely built guitar & sounds good plugged in. I also own a Japanese made Ibanez that I bought in 1990. The craftsmanship is second to NONE. Just as nice as my American Standard Strat. I do not own any electric guitar tube amps made in China.

I think good quality can come from just about anywhere as long as it's the priority of the builder. However, each builder could have different levels of quality.

I believe that if I buy a US made $1000.00 Fender or Peavey, I'm getting the best from them in that range. If I buy a $1000.00 Orange, Marshall, Fender, Peavey or Egnater made in China or Mexico (who's home base is in England, USA, or used to be USA), I think I'm getting the "cheaper for the maker to build" version. The watered down affordable version based on the Real McCoy which the reputation has been built. If the price is significantly lower, I'll consider it like I did for my Martin. However, if the price point is way out of skew for what it is, I'll go right past it.

It might still be a fine amp. Most would agree though, that the England made Marshalls & Oranges are top shelf over the budget friendly made in China versions of each. The same is often said of Fender USA vs Fender Mexico & Peavey USA vs Peavey China. To side with Fender & Peavey, I'll gladly say that each of them price their US amps VERY fairly in comparison to the outsourced amps of other builders.

When a company or builder outsources away from home base they do it to save money. Sometimes the only difference might be labor costs. Sadly, often times the difference will be found in quality, reliability & components used.

I can't say whether an Orange, Marshall, Peavey, or Egnater made in China is better or worse than a Fender made in Mexico. I do personally know a local musician who regularly gigs with (alternately) a HR Deville 410 v.II & an Egnater Renegade. He is quite happy with both of them.

Hopefully your Deluxe III will be an amp that you can enjoy for a long time. Only you can decide what is right for you. You'll find endless views & opinions here. Some will be very helpful & useful, others not so much. Take what you will from it.

Cheers


Last edited by JPH74 on Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Hot rod deluxe vs Egnater
Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:31 am
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Very well put JPH74

I also have the US made HRDlx, for 13 years and counting. 8)

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Post subject: Re: Hot rod deluxe vs Egnater
Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:46 pm
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mortalengines, I wouldn't worry about it unless something happens. Be happy with it and if gives you problems do what you feel is right. That's what I did. Fender has been having QC issues all the way around, not just in Mexico. Reverb tanks were a problem for a while as was cabinet buzz on the tweed Champ reissue. Just remember that with a tube amp. 90% of the problems are tube related so if you gig and rely on the amp have spares. I buy quad sets of power tubes. That way if I lose a pair I can replace them and still be in the ballpark as far as the bias goes.

As far as the Martin guitars go. I just bought a Performing Artist Series. The PA4 which is the low end of that series. I wanted solid wood on at least the body, face and neck. The fingerboard and bridge is made of Black Richlite. It's a paper and resin material. I love the way it sounds. I tried the Mexican built HPL guitars and liked the PA4 better. I'm not saying the HPl's are bad guitars, on the contrary they're an incredible value and now I'm looking at the HPL twelve string. I've been playing guitar for over 40 years and never owned a Nazareth Pa built Martin and I had the money. Martin is serious about the quality of their instruments no matter where they're made. I also have an Ibanez AS73 built in China and my Egnater also comes from China. The Egnater isn't watered down at all IMO and is built quite well. It's gigged and rehearsed weekly and never had a single problem with it in over a year and a half. There are different levels of quality coming out of China.

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Post subject: Re: Hot rod deluxe vs Egnater
Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:04 pm
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63supro wrote:
As far as the Martin guitars go. I just bought a Performing Artist Series. The PA4 which is the low end of that series. I wanted solid wood on at least the body, face and neck.

The Egnater isn't watered down at all IMO and is built quite well. It's gigged and rehearsed weekly and never had a single problem with it in over a year and a half. There are different levels of quality coming out of China.



Cool, congrats on the PA4 those are really nice Martin guitars! I think acoustic guitars sound better if they're constructed more of wood & less of HPL when it comes to the body. It's really cool that Martin is building guitars with all wood bodies & using environmentally friendly micarta & richlite fretboards & stratabond necks. I agree with what you said about the quality of Martin! My Mex/made 000cx1e sounds & plays great. Plugged in, to my ears, it sounds as good as my Taylor 314ce (very different but as good none the less). Unplugged, I prefer the sound of my Taylor (not because it's a Taylor but because it's all wood). I won't say either of the two companies are better than the other because they are both great & different in many ways.

Also congrats on more than a year 1/2 gigging with your Egnater. Which further proves that good quality can come from many places as long as it is a priority.


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Post subject: Re: Hot rod deluxe vs Egnater
Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:34 pm
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JPH74, thanks for the kind comments. I also just bought a Fishman Loudbox Mini to compliment the Fishman electronics in the Martin. All I can say is WOW! It sounds so incredibly natural. I tried some Taylors while I was looking at acoustics as well a Breedlove, Parkwood, Takamine and Epiphone. I love the neck and playability on the Taylors' the ones I tried were a little too bright to my ears. But that's just my ears. The craftsmanship was flawless as was the Martin and Breedlove. The Epi Masterbuilt was a little sloppy. I originally wanted the Epi but after some comparision shopping the Martin picked me. :lol: It just fit my style of playing.

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Post subject: Re: Hot rod deluxe vs Egnater
Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:38 pm
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63supro wrote:
JPH74, thanks for the kind comments. I tried some Taylors while I was looking at acoustics as well a Breedlove, Parkwood, Takamine and Epiphone. I love the neck and playability on the Taylors' the ones I tried were a little too bright to my ears. I originally wanted the Epi but after some comparision shopping the Martin picked me. :lol: It just fit my style of playing.



I also tried out the Parkwood when I was shopping for my Taylor. I was impressed with the quality & value of Parkwood guitars. Breedlove & Takamine are very nice as well. I think most would agree with you (including me) that Taylors are "brighter" sounding than Martins. Martins tend to be warmer to my ears. I bought the 000 Mex on a budget. Over time I really began to rely on it & put it through the paces. 2 years later after saving some loot, I went out to buy the same Martin 000 guitar but made in the US. One of the reasons I ended up choosing the Taylor was because I was still so happy with my Mex Martin that I couldn't justifiy buying a nicer version of the same guitar. The obvious differences were the Wood body, the binding, the inlays, the gloss finished top, & the nicer tone of the US version. I decided to keep working my "plain Jane" Mex Martin. So with the purchase of the Taylor, I figured I could have two very different & nice sounding guitars.

Funny though, to this day, I gig with the Martin more often. I love the 000 body, for me it's the most comfortable acoustic I've played. I do however, really like the simplicity of the 3 knob expression system on the Taylor. It's easy to adjust on the fly when performing live.

I think the Martin PA4 has an even more simple 2 knob set up. How do the like the electronics system?


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Post subject: Re: Hot rod deluxe vs Egnater
Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:28 pm
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63supro wrote:
Yeah I know. :lol: When a piece of gear pisses in my shoes, I never let up.


HAHA I know what you mean 63supro. I am the same way. I gag a little bit every time i say VOX!!!!!!


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Post subject: Re: Hot rod deluxe vs Egnater
Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:44 pm
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truebluefliplover wrote:
I gag a little bit every time i say VOX!!!!!!


Now wait just a doggone minute there......

Image

IS NOTHING SACRED?

:lol:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Hot rod deluxe vs Egnater
Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:58 pm
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Paul Revere and the Raiders! Man I thought those toilet seat shaped Vox guitars were cool. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Hot rod deluxe vs Egnater
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:02 am
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63supro wrote:
Compared to my Egnater, my HRDlx was a total tone turd. :lol:


+1 can I get an Amen?

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Post subject: Re: Hot rod deluxe vs Egnater
Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:49 am
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JPH74 wrote:
63supro wrote:
JPH74, thanks for the kind comments. I tried some Taylors while I was looking at acoustics as well a Breedlove, Parkwood, Takamine and Epiphone. I love the neck and playability on the Taylors' the ones I tried were a little too bright to my ears. I originally wanted the Epi but after some comparision shopping the Martin picked me. :lol: It just fit my style of playing.



I also tried out the Parkwood when I was shopping for my Taylor. I was impressed with the quality & value of Parkwood guitars. Breedlove & Takamine are very nice as well. I think most would agree with you (including me) that Taylors are "brighter" sounding than Martins. Martins tend to be warmer to my ears. I bought the 000 Mex on a budget. Over time I really began to rely on it & put it through the paces. 2 years later after saving some loot, I went out to buy the same Martin 000 guitar but made in the US. One of the reasons I ended up choosing the Taylor was because I was still so happy with my Mex Martin that I couldn't justifiy buying a nicer version of the same guitar. The obvious differences were the Wood body, the binding, the inlays, the gloss finished top, & the nicer tone of the US version. I decided to keep working my "plain Jane" Mex Martin. So with the purchase of the Taylor, I figured I could have two very different & nice sounding guitars.

Funny though, to this day, I gig with the Martin more often. I love the 000 body, for me it's the most comfortable acoustic I've played. I do however, really like the simplicity of the 3 knob expression system on the Taylor. It's easy to adjust on the fly when performing live.

I think the Martin PA4 has an even more simple 2 knob set up. How do the like the electronics system?

They actually have two different systems the one I have is the Aura F1 Analog, very simple, just a volume/tuner and a tone/phase. You just push down on the knobs. It's great. Plugged into the Fishman Loudbox Mini I rarely need to touch the tone controls. The amps tone controls are set at 12:00 which is flat or just non existent. The guitar sounds great that way. It still has all its character. The other Aura system on the PA3,2,1's seem a bit more complex and more than I would need. I hear great things about it and it's programmable. I like how clean the two knobs are, it doesn't take that big piece out of the side.

Here's a photo I took of the side.
Image

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Post subject: Re: Hot rod deluxe vs Egnater
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:09 am
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mortalengines wrote:
I have heard alot of complaints about the earlier Hot Rods but, I understand the most recent version (the one I bought) has addressed those issues. I don't know...I played some of the Egnaters in the past and yes...they are certainly loud and very clear! Frankly tho I found them lacking character. I see a lot of guys jumping on the Egnater bandwagon (when I see a trend I usually run in the opposite direction as a matter of personal policy). I would have bought a Deluxe Reverb RI if I had the money on the day I bought my Hrdlx but, I tried them both out side by side in a store, and found I didn't have to work too terribly hard to get pretty frickin' close to the DRRI in terms of sound with the Hrdlx and I could squeeze out a few other nice tones just by playing with the controls a little. You buy a Fender cuz it sounds like a Fender. An Egnater or a Blackstar wont sound like a Fender but, they certainly DO sound nice for the cost of your arm, leg and possibly first born child...LOL!

I have an Egnater Tweaker 40 w/2x12 cab, not because of a fun ride on a wagon, but because it is a quality made, superb sounding amp. I like the fact that it makes my Strats sound like Strats. It cost me $853.00 total ($550.00 for the head, and $303.00 for the 2x12. I caught it used from 'Musicians Friend'). I really didn't mind the price tag, because I'm patient and willing to take the time to save up for exactly what I want without compromise or settling. IMO, "why settle for something similar to what you really want (regardless of the price), when you can just save up, and get what you really want." You know you want an EGNATER :wink: ! Stop trying to convince yourself you don't. Just keep putting a little money aside until you have enough. I don't think they will be stopping production no time soon, and I don't think you will be disappointed...

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Last edited by ny_byooboy on Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Hot rod deluxe vs Egnater
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:27 am
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On the 6V6 side of the Rebel, and on the American setting on the Tweaker with an open back cab, you can get remarkably close to not only a DR, but on the Rebel, if you mess with the watts dial, you get really close to a Princeton too. Egnater Rebels and Tweakers don't cost an arm or a leg. The are very competitively priced. The Tweaker 15 is about fifty bucks more than a Blues Jr. The Rebel 30 Combo isn't all that far off from a HRDlx. It's ten watts less, but I found even my Rebel 20 cut a mix way better than my HRDlx ever did. Cutting a mix IMO is way more important than sheer wattage ratings. The other thing is, you don't have to sound like everyone else. Look on a lot of stages and you'll see all kinds of amps like Victoria, Carr, Dr. Z big buck guys might use Dumble, Divided by 13. It doesn't always have to be a Fender. I own a few different amps. All different, same with my guitars. Different tools for different jobs. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Hot rod deluxe vs Egnater
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:58 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
.....you're better off with Behringer!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Arjay

OK, thanks for teaching me something new today, Arjay. You just taught me never to drink coffee while I'm surfing the Forum. That caught me by surprise and I literally spit my coffee all over my monitor. I'll get you back one of these days, you just watch me....

:wink:

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