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Post subject: Re: SS22 rattle?
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:22 pm
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jason1978 wrote:
I currently have so called microphonic tubes in my amplifier. I hear a ringing not a rattle... when I think of a rattle noise I think of a rattle snakes rattler or maybe a baby rattle. The sound I hear is not a rattle. If "rattle" is a technical term adopted by the tube amp community to describe the ringing of a microphonic tube I guess I need to know that? Haha!


Microphonic tubes can make any number of noises. I had a microphonic 5751 preamp tube in my heavily modded Champion 600 that buzzed like a bumble bee on certain notes. It has now been relegated to a display piece in the book case in my studio. :lol: Any tube noise other than the desired amplified signal is a bad thing. :x

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Post subject: Re: SS22 rattle?
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:24 pm
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twirlyboggs wrote:
for real im serious ~~~~~*


Yes, you are. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: SS22 rattle?
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:01 pm
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bustrz5150 wrote:
...That said, I plan to call Fender tomorrow and use my 90 day tube warranty...if i were to request the exact same spec tube (GT 4 white), would I still need to have my amp biased?...


The whole idea of the GT rating is so you can get the same replacement tubes and no bias adjustment is needed. However, this assumes that the bias is correct to begin with, and without checking it, no way to know. Some Fender amps come from the factory with bias settings that are considered by many to be too hot or too cold. You can check your bias fairly easily with an inexpensive digital volt meter, and there are videos and instructions here, and on other sites to help, it isn't very difficult, just be cautious of high voltage inside the amp.

The way I see it, a microphonic tube is one that will produce sound on its own in an amp, such as hearing the sound amplified when tapping on a tube, or when the tube produces it's own uncontrollable feedback, as a howling or squeal, while playing or when the guitar is turned up. Sometimes, a microphonic tube will even howl without a guitar plugged into the amp.

A rattling tube produces a mechanical or "rattling" or "buzzing" noise only while using the amp, sometimes only on certain notes. This rattling noise won't be reproduced from tapping on the tubes, but is the result of the sound waves from the speaker moving the tube parts inside the glass.

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Post subject: Re: SS22 rattle?
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:13 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
The way I see it, a microphonic tube is one that will produce sound on its own in an amp, such as hearing the sound amplified when tapping on a tube, or when the tube produces it's own uncontrollable feedback, as a howling or squeal, while playing or when the guitar is turned up. Sometimes, a microphonic tube will even howl without a guitar plugged into the amp.

A rattling tube produces a mechanical or "rattling" or "buzzing" noise only while using the amp, sometimes only on certain notes. This rattling noise won't be reproduced from tapping on the tubes, but is the result of the sound waves from the speaker moving the tube parts inside the glass.


I consider any sound that a tube makes, regardless if it is self generated or external vibration induced, to be microphonics. In any case, this article should clarify things:

http://www.thevalvepage.com/valvetek/mi ... icroph.htm

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Post subject: Re: SS22 rattle?
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:17 pm
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I don't know about that bluesky636.

Cool stuff there, but I didn't see a correlation to or distinction between rattling and microphonic. The "resonance" that they are measuring doesn't necessarily produce a rattle, but can produce the ringing/howling sound.

Consider the term "microphonic", and as pointed out on the other thread, all tubes are microphonic to a certain degree, which is part of their sound producing "magic" as compared to SS. A microphone doesn't normally rattle, but it can normally feedback and produce the howl/squeal (microphonic), hence the term.

To me, these are two very distinct sounds, but I guess that it really doesn't matter, because as you said, if a tube makes a weird noise of any kind, replacing it is best. :)

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Post subject: Re: SS22 rattle?
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:25 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
To me, these are two very distinct sounds, but I guess that it really doesn't matter, because as you said, if a tube makes a weird noise of any kind, replacing it is best.


+1

Nothing distracts from a piece of music like spurious noise -- whether from an amp, patch cable, guitar, stompbox, whatever.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: SS22 rattle?
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:51 am
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shimmilou wrote:
I don't know about that bluesky636.

Cool stuff there, but I didn't see a correlation to or distinction between rattling and microphonic. The "resonance" that they are measuring doesn't necessarily produce a rattle, but can produce the ringing/howling sound.

Consider the term "microphonic", and as pointed out on the other thread, all tubes are microphonic to a certain degree, which is part of their sound producing "magic" as compared to SS. A microphone doesn't normally rattle, but it can normally feedback and produce the howl/squeal (microphonic), hence the term.

To me, these are two very distinct sounds, but I guess that it really doesn't matter, because as you said, if a tube makes a weird noise of any kind, replacing it is best. :)


Yeah, I just kind of stumbled on that article and posted it more as a little joke. You know, "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS." :lol:

Agree, the only sounds a tube should make are music sounds. Otherwise they go in the trash. :D

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Post subject: Re: SS22 rattle?
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:52 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
shimmilou wrote:
To me, these are two very distinct sounds, but I guess that it really doesn't matter, because as you said, if a tube makes a weird noise of any kind, replacing it is best.


+1

Nothing distracts from a piece of music like spurious noise -- whether from an amp, patch cable, guitar, stompbox, whatever.

Arjay


Or lousy guitar players (like me). :lol:

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Post subject: Re: SS22 rattle?
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:37 am
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:lol: The player can make a big difference. I was checking out an amp recently, had the owner play while I checked it out. It sounded fantastic and I committed to buying. The owner handed me the guitar, and as soon as I started strumming, the sound wasn't so pleasant all of a sudden. :? I jokingly told the owner that the amp just broke, and I couldn't buy it because now it sounds like crap. :lol: I did buy it though, he made it sound so good, so I have something to shoot for.

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Post subject: Re: SS22 rattle?
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:15 am
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shimmilou wrote:
:lol: The player can make a big difference. I was checking out an amp recently, had the owner play while I checked it out. It sounded fantastic and I committed to buying. The owner handed me the guitar, and as soon as I started strumming, the sound wasn't so pleasant all of a sudden. :? I jokingly told the owner that the amp just broke, and I couldn't buy it because now it sounds like crap. :lol: I did buy it though, he made it sound so good, so I have something to shoot for.


I can only imagine how bad it would sound if I played through it. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: SS22 rattle?
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:04 pm
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OK...for what it's worth...I did some tube swapping...first every 12AX7...rattle/ringing still there...so, onto the 6V6...while I did not bias the amp, my set of JJ 6V6 are matched...and...rattle/ringing GONE...

So...I ordered a brand new set of JJ's from Eurotubes along with his bias probes. Until then...I guess it's back to the Mustang 1 for now.

For what it's worth...even without the bias...the amp sounds delicious...best amp purchase I've made in years.

Thanks for all of the advice.
Erik


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