It is currently Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:52 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
Post subject: speaker power handling
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:11 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:59 pm
Posts: 3439
Location: ohio
another speaker question.

when replacing a speaker in your amp, i know you need to match up the impedance, but what is the rule for power handling?

for instance- you have a 50 watt tube amp. should you repace it with a 50 watt speaker? is a 75 watt enough, or a 150 watt way too much?

does the rule change for solid state?

just want to know whether i need a speaker to match the same wattage, or if i need a higher rating, how much more would i need. thanks


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: speaker power handling
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:01 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
Depends on how you use the amp. If you are playing at home or a small club and never dime your amp, you could make due with a 50 watt speaker. If you play larger venues and like to crank things, twice the amp wattage (100 watts in this case) is a good place to start. It is the transients and heavy distortion that can kill a speaker. Tubes clip more softly when they go into overload vice transistors which can generate a hefty square or sawtooth waveform if pushed over the top.

_________________
Bill

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: speaker power handling
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:23 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
bluesky636 wrote:
Depends on how you use the amp. If you are playing at home or a small club and never dime your amp, you could make due with a 50 watt speaker. If you play larger venues and like to crank things, twice the amp wattage (100 watts in this case) is a good place to start. It is the transients and heavy distortion that can kill a speaker. Tubes clip more softly when they go into overload vice transistors which can generate a hefty square or sawtooth waveform if pushed over the top.


+1

My rule-of-thumb is to have a minimum of a 50% power-handling reserve for multiple-speaker amps, lest one driver fail and the input load falls on the surviving speaker. For a single-speaker array, I prefer a 100% power-handling reserve.

In 45 years, I've blown exactly one speaker -- and that was early on when I was still a teenager.

HTH

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: speaker power handling
Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:39 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14050
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
Another hints; If you want to hear ONLY the amp, choose a more powerfull speaker and if you want to hear the speaker AND the amp, choose a less powerfull speaker.

By hear the speaker I mean to hear speaker' distorsion.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: speaker power handling
Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:15 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
stratele52 wrote:
Another hints; If you want to hear ONLY the amp, choose a more powerfull speaker and if you want to hear the speaker AND the amp, choose a less powerfull speaker.

By hear the speaker I mean to hear speaker' distorsion.


What you mean is cone breakup and that is not specifically related to power handling, but more related to cone construction. Just look at the Weber speaker website for the different breakup descriptions for different speakers with the same power handing capacity.

_________________
Bill

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: speaker power handling
Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:31 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14050
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
I read this on one of the Gerald Weber book


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: speaker power handling
Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:43 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
stratele52 wrote:
I read this on one of the Gerald Weber book


Then please explain what you are saying because cone cry, speaker breakup, etc. are not strictly related to power handing capacity. Nor does power handling capacity have anything to do with speaker effeciency. If anything a speaker with a higher power handling capacity is going to have a larger magnet and a larger voice coil. This increase in size causes an effective slowdown of speaker response, i.e., it takes more energy to get the seaker to move which corresponds to more time. The impulse response of the speaker (how quickly it responds to an input signal, particularly a sharp transient) is negatively affected.

_________________
Bill

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: speaker power handling
Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:11 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14050
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
Bluesky , I'll try to find in wich book I read that . I have all the Gerald Weber's books


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: speaker power handling
Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:26 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14050
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
Bluesky636,
I did not find yet in my Gerald Weber book.
I must admit you give very interresting information . Speaker breakup is mysterious for me . I had a look on Weber speaker, I try to understand / translate , not easy....


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: speaker power handling
Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:38 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
Speaker breakup is a mysterious topic. And the phenomenon can also be quite unpredictable. Which is why I prefer speakers that have little or no breakup. I find it's easier to achieve a more consistent overdriven tone and saturated compression using the pre-amp and power amp stages only. Likewise, there's often a very fine line between the point where a speaker "breaks up" and where it merely breaks outright due to excessive input power or overexposure to square wave signals heavy in harmonic content.

JMOOC

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: speaker power handling
Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:47 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14050
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
Retroverbial wrote:
Speaker breakup is Which is why I prefer speakers that have little or no breakup. I find it's easier to achieve a more consistent overdriven tone and saturated compression using the pre-amp and power amp stages only.

JMOOC

Arjay


I think you explain very well what I mean and what I understand about G. Weber book....if you want to hear your amp more than the speaker.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: speaker power handling
Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:52 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
stratele52 wrote:
...if you want to hear your amp more than the speaker.


Precisely.

But conversely, there are others who prefer the sound of a loudspeaker as it seemingly coughs out its last tortured decibel just before it dies.

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: speaker power handling
Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:33 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
I believe Arjay and I are saying the same thing. My point was that if you look at the Ted Weber speaker website, you will find speakers with the same power rating (say 50 watts) that are designed for late breakup as well as 50 watt speakers that are designed for early breakup. Power handling capability is only one factor in the equation of "hearing the speaker" vs "hearing the amp". There is a lot going on with a speaker betweeen the point that it barely starts moving and when it finally launches itself through the speaker grille at the unsuspecting guitarist. :lol:

_________________
Bill

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: speaker power handling
Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:51 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
bluesky636 wrote:
and when it finally launches itself through the speaker grille at the unsuspecting guitarist.


"INCOMING!"

LOL

:lol:

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: