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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:24 am
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beckologist wrote:
I agree that the right tubes can make an amp sound better. But it will not fundamental change the amp. It probably will not turn the worst sounding amp ever into the best sounding amp ever.

Not the worst sounding amp, but an amp with potential can sound like crap with the wrong tubes and bias... for example, take a simple amp like a Deluxe Reverb, if it has some crappy tubes and a very cold bias it will sound like $hit, horrible highs and lows! Throw in a good pair of 6V6 and set the bias hot and it's a completely different animal.


I agree with you. You just described the experience I had with my DRRI. Although I never thought the amp sounded horrible. Just thought that it could sound better.

The context of my comment was someone buying an amp via the internet when they had never played that type of amp before and then hating the amp. My assumption was that the amp had good and properly biased tubes. If the amp has good and correctly biased tubes and the person still hates the amp, they probably bought the wrong amp. A different brand of properly biased tubes probably won't make enough of a difference for them.


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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:36 pm
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Hello All,

Just wanted to chime in here with my CVR story...

Wandered into Guitar Center Hollywood about 6 months ago, and after a few minutes of disorienting cacophony (the usual)--all of a sudden I heard something magical (and it wasn't a metal riff!)... I looked over and a guy was playing a 52RI Tele through the CVR. Totally blew me away. I thought "If he doesn't buy it, I'm taking it home." And I did. For $899 on clearance! Even got them to throw in the amp cover...

Very satisfying right out of the box--but fast forward to a few months later, and after many hours on eBay (and some luck at winning auctions), it's now been completely re-tubed, as follows:

(2) NOS RCA 6L6GC black plate power tubes
(2) NOS GE 5-star 6072A (low-noise 12AY7 equivalent) black plate in V1 + V2
(1) NOS RCA 12AT7 black plate in V3 (Reverb)
(2) Reissue Tung-Sol 12AX7 in V4 + V5
(1) NOS Mullard 12AT7/CV4024 in V6 (Phase Inverter)

The results:

Absolutely unbelievable. No kidding. Dead silent, INCREDIBLE tone. The richest Vibrato/Tremolo (bias-modulating) anyone's ever heard. I have friends who own every kind of vintage amp under the sun--and when ANYONE plays this thing, it's a universal "WOW!"

I have a 21-pedal analog pedal board, and it handles them all, very well. Yet just this week I started using an A/B/Y box to play through Input 1 of both Normal + Bright channels simultaneously. Again, just wow. So yeah, who needs effects?!?! Haha.

Obviously I intentionally lowered the gain structure in V1 + V2 and changed the PI to 12AT7 as well. Didn't lose even a hint of dynamics or richness--if anything it gained some. Just doesn't break up til 5 or 6 now, at a volume that will make your ears bleed.

Anyhow, I literally just registered here on the forum to share my thoughts... This amp sounded great (to me) as it was, stock. With careful, thoughtful re-tubing and some time to break in the Jensen RI speakers… I'd put it against any amp, anywhere, anytime, from any era... and it will proudly hold its own.

So to anyone considering this amp... Do not be discouraged by the naysayers... and please don't just buy it to "mod" it. Give it a chance! If anyone ever heard my amp and thought "that would sound better/quieter/etc after some mods", they're out of their mind. :D

And last, if you add a 1x12 or 2x12 (Vibro-King!) extension cabinet to the 2x10 combo… You'll never know what hit you!

Just my $.02, of course!


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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:11 am
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I would like to apologize if I offended anyone. I did make some silly comments that in hindsight would have been better left unsaid. There are some very knowledgeable folks on this forum that are always willing to help others. I admire those folks talents and helpfulness. In a moment of passion I probably insulted those very people. I would particularly like to apologize to Cedarblues, Retroverbial, and Rebelsoul if I offended you in anyway.


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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:23 am
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No heartburn here, B-Man.

In this age of "PC" I respect anyone with the stones to express an opinion and stand by it -- even if I happen to disagree.

Rawk on!

8)

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:46 am
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beckologist wrote:
I would like to apologize if I offended anyone. I did make some silly comments that in hindsight would have been better left unsaid. There are some very knowledgeable folks on this forum that are always willing to help others. I admire those folks talents and helpfulness. In a moment of passion I probably insulted those very people. I would particularly like to apologize to Cedarblues, Retroverbial, and Rebelsoul if I offended you in anyway.

Say what??? Apology NOT accepted! What exactly did you say that insulted me or the others? Did I miss anything??

I didn't find any of your comments silly at all, we're all entitled to our own opinions and we all love to share them... now go plug into your CVR and turn that sumbitch up and enjoy some sweet Fender tone! :mrgreen:


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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:10 am
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rockboxer wrote:
(2) NOS RCA 6L6GC black plate power tubes
(2) NOS GE 5-star 6072A (low-noise 12AY7 equivalent) black plate in V1 + V2
(1) NOS RCA 12AT7 black plate in V3 (Reverb)
(2) Reissue Tung-Sol 12AX7 in V4 + V5
(1) NOS Mullard 12AT7/CV4024 in V6 (Phase Inverter)

That's great list of tubes you got there! 8)

I haven't had much luck with the Tung-Sol tubes, even their preamp... you can leave it in V5 but I would try a different 12AX7 in V4, really helps the Reverb and the overall tone of your amp, just a thought... nothing wrong with experimenting :wink:


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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:45 pm
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beckologist - Great thread, great posts. Don't think anyone has any reason to be offended. Just sharing your thoughts and experience with things, right? That's the idea... ;) Of course, I was agreeing with you that the tubes can make a world of difference--especially in an already great amp, like the CVR... In fact they made such a difference in mine, that I think anyone who owns one of these owes it to themselves to re-tube it with the best they can afford... Preferably before they lay a harsh critique on it, contemplate any mods, etc... :)

cedarblues - Thanks for the heads up on V4. As hard as I tried, I couldn't find any specifics regarding how important V4 + V5 were--regarding gain structure, tonality, inclusion in reverb circuit, etc... Never really minded the Tung-Sol reissues (perfectly utilitarian) but don't love them--so I will eventually swap them out... Unfortunately (or fortunately!) the only other 12AX7 tubes I have on hand right now are a pair of 1950's Telefunken smooth plates, which just might be overkill in those positions. :) Yesterday I lost an auction for a quad of Sylvania 12AX7A blackplates, so back to the drawing board. In due time, it will happen--but in all seriousness, I am *very* happy with the way it sounds right now...

Of course, like Powdered Toast Man said:

"Sometimes the simplest setup is the right setup. I think some guys get caught up in that quest for tone and it's always about adding the next piece, but few ever think to scale back."

Haven't personally posted my thoughts on an internet forum in years--so thanks for being good people... and best of luck to all, on the (very personal) tone quest! :)


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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:00 pm
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Thanks guys. When I was just starting to play way back when at age 14 there was a music store I took lessons at. The store had some really accomplished musicians. I didn’t really understand at the time just how accomplished and successful some these guys were. What I did realize was that these guys were willing to spend lots of time talking to me about different equipment, types of music, and different players.

The one thing these guys all had in common is that they were always respectful. They never seemed to have the need to rank equipment or other artists. Yes they had opinions (and how) of what they liked or didn’t like, and how they would or would not incorporate those elements. They were true artists in my mind. I have always tried to emulate what I learned from those guys. Pay it forward so to speak. For awhile there it felt like I may have crossed a line I drew for myself a long time ago.


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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:20 pm
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I was just searching ebay and came across the CVR and thought, now this sounds like the amp for me. So I decided to come over here and see what I could find from ya'll, and low and behold, there was a thread right on top about this amp. After reading this, I've come to the conclusion that I've got to get me one of these. It is exactly what I've been looking for, an amp without distortion, but with that classic "Fender" reverb and vibrato. I have always overdriven my amps with a tube screamer, so this sounds like the perfect choice. Thanks again guys!

I was gonna get another Hot Rod Deville, but I only used the clean channel, but I never had a problem with that amp. I used a Visual Sound Jekyll and Hyde to add flavor to that amp. Even recorded with that setup with a hard rock band that I used to be in.

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Last edited by TEXASBLUEZMAN on Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:52 am
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rockboxer wrote:
cedarblues - Thanks for the heads up on V4. As hard as I tried, I couldn't find any specifics regarding how important V4 + V5 were--regarding gain structure, tonality, inclusion in reverb circuit, etc... Never really minded the Tung-Sol reissues (perfectly utilitarian) but don't love them--so I will eventually swap them out... Unfortunately (or fortunately!) the only other 12AX7 tubes I have on hand right now are a pair of 1950's Telefunken smooth plates, which just might be overkill in those positions. :) Yesterday I lost an auction for a quad of Sylvania 12AX7A blackplates, so back to the drawing board. In due time, it will happen--but in all seriousness, I am *very* happy with the way it sounds right now...

V5 is the least important, unless you use the vibrato... but V4 does affect the overall tone of your amp, not just the reverb, it's the second gain stage for channel 2. I found that in some amps it made a big difference in the tone... for example, my 73 SR only sounded perfect when I had a RCA 12AX7 in there, nothing else completed the tone. I'd give those Telefunken a try in V4, I tried a smooth plate and it made the amp sound warmer and smoother in a way, still prefer the RCA in there.

rockboxer wrote:
Haven't personally posted my thoughts on an internet forum in years--so thanks for being good people... and best of luck to all, on the (very personal) tone quest! :)

Welcome to the forum, enjoy your stay here, lots of great people who are always willing to help.


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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:11 pm
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For powdered toast: most people do not like the way the CVR behaves. Zinky does great work. I owned a Prosonic. Your editorial of my post was unnecessary and not appreciated. I have had at least 20 guys ask me where I got my modding kits for my CVR. They wouldn't be selling all of these Moyer Mod kits without a reason.


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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:32 pm
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rednefceleb wrote:
For powdered toast: most people do not like the way the CVR behaves. Zinky does great work. I owned a Prosonic. Your editorial of my post was unnecessary and not appreciated. I have had at least 20 guys ask me where I got my modding kits for my CVR. They wouldn't be selling all of these Moyer Mod kits without a reason.


Given that the CVR has been in Fender's lineup for over 15 years in its current form, I would surmise that they sell enough of them that plenty of people like them just the way they are. There's mod kits available for lots of different amps and pedals out there. That doesn't mean the majority of owners mod theirs.

And for the record, I was responding to your editorial on these amps. Myself and the original poster we having a discussion about how much we enjoy the CVR and you came in to crap all over it and exclaim how you couldn't believe Fender would make such a lousy amp. From your post, it sounds to me like you purchased a CVR expecting a "Vibrolux reissue", which it is not, and is not intended to be. Which leads me to my one criticism of Fender on the CVR: They should have kept it with the original Brownface cosmetics that it had when originally released, and not changed to Blackface style tolex and grill cloth. I think it would have differentiated it more from the reissue line.

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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:30 pm
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I just bought a CVR. It's mean, has plenty of attitude, and it just loves my 60th Anniversary Tele. Just what I was looking for :D


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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:12 am
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Powdered Toast: you are way too protective of an amp, that in you ears, doesn't need protection. You might as well accept the fact that this particular Fender product has inherent problems: with reverb, (weak), hiss, low volume breakup, and cheap capacitors, (Illinois). I bought my CVR off of eBay knowing exactly what I was getting, faults & all. There are no Vibrolux reissues & why would dressing the CVR in Brownface make it less confusing to the buyer? It would look really cool but the sound would not be the sound of any Brownface made. I was surprised that the reverb was as weak as it was. Knowing exactly what I was buying, I sent for John Fromel's cap and circuit modification kit. It is now set to "Brownface" & Vibroverb specs. I've always known exactly what I've bought thru the years. No one 'hacks into' any of my equipment without my express consent. My amp tech is an extremely experienced. Opinions given on any forum are the responsibility of the person who puts his opinions out there. If someone is ripping on a piece of equipment that I own, I have never considered taking it personally. The final product of the Fender CVR after being re tubed, recapped, and modded with the Moyer & Fromel kits, is the nicest sounding Fender amp that I've ever owned. At the end of the day it was a bargain, and I knew that it would be. $650 for the amp/$150 for the kits/$230 for tubes & $150/ in labor. $1,180.00 in all. All in all, I'm happy with my amp and consider it a bargain. When others rip on your CVR Mr. Powdered Toast: try to keep your powdered toast in order.


Last edited by rednefceleb on Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:42 am
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rednefceleb wrote:
All in all, I'm happy with my amp and consider it a bargain.


+1

That's all that really matters.

Did you change out the speakers or keep the OEM P10Q's?

Arjay

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