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Post subject: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:19 pm
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Anyone own a Custom Vibrolux Reverb? After test driving a slightly used one today, I have a few questions for anyone who owns one of these amps.

1. The reverb had what I can only describe as a very pronounced decaying distortion associated with the reverb effect. The distortion increased as the reverb was turned up. It was like bumble bees were in the reverb unit. This may just be a tube, however the salesman said these amps are know for this type of reverb sound. Is this in fact common on these amps?

2 - The amp had less headroom than I expected. Again this may be tubes. It may also be a case of learning the dynamics of the amp, but with the volume at 3 there was substantial dirt when digging into the strings. Even lightening up on the touch left quite a bit of dirt in the mix. This is a dynamic amp, but where on the dial would you say the amp begins to break up?

Thanks for your help. I will be test driving a new one soon, but wanted to get the opinion of someone that owns this amp.


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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:46 pm
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I own a CVR and I'll try and answer your questions.

#1. I definitely would not use the words you used to describe the reverb sound that I get on mine. Many people complain that the reverb on these amps is "weak" sounding, however it is a product of the circuit mods done to this amp. While it does not have the washy reverb of a true Blackface amp, it is at least pleasing sounding. You're not going to get surf guitar sounds out of it, but I find Blackface reverbs to be overpowering anyway (I usually don't exceed 2 on my SRRI reverb).

There IS a reason the reverb is weak sounding on the CVR. I'm not an electrical expert, but it has to do with the fact that the Normal and Bright channel are IN phase, whereas most BF amps are out of phase. This means you can use a patch cable and jumper the two channels together for some really nice tones. I like plugging my guitar into Bright input 1, and then patching input 2 over to normal 1. Then you can use the two volume and EQ knobs together to dial in some great sounds.

#2. It depends on what type of guitar/pickup combination you were using. If you were playing through a guitar equipped with humbuckers, then overdrive on "3" does not surprise me. This is normal for this amp and is part of what sets it apart from the Blackface reissues. The amp does not have a negative feedback loop, which acts to increase clean headroom. This gives it much more of a Tweed or Brownface era response to increased volume. It overdrives early. In fact, by about "4" on the knob, you've gotten just about all the volume you're going to get out of it and it will just get dirtier the higher you go. I can take my LP Jr which has a single P90 pickup, turn the CVR up to about 4.5, and I get the most awesome AC/DC tone out of it.

Some would argue that the amp sucks because of these things, but it all depends on what your intended uses are for it. Personally, I LOVE the sound of this amp around 3 to 3.5 on the volume knob. If I could play it right there all the time, I would - however my band thinks I'm too loud when it's still below 2 so... (Also note I tried this at a club gig too. By the second song I had turned myself right back down to less than 2 because it was just overpowering). Just back off the volume knob on your guitar a bit and it'll clean up.

I'm glad you tried it out before you bought it. Too many people purchase these online and expect it's going to be a 65 Vibrolux reissue, but it really isn't. With some circuit mods, it can be, but if you love the CVR for what it is like I do, then it can be a very rewarding amp.

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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:22 am
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Thanks. Forgot about the channel mixing. Jumping the channels may increase the volume. The CVR would be easier to transport than my low power tweed twin, but still usable for smaller gigs and practice without being mic‘d. The DRRI (with an ALNICO speaker) doesn’t quite cut it in this role . Mostly because of the bottom end getting real flubby. I liked the way the bottom held together on the CVR.

Other than the reverb, which seems to be an issue with this particular amp, I was impressed with the amp. There was a little bit of hum that people have mentioned , but nothing unmanageable outside a recording studio. Without having my amps right there to compare, it was difficult to judge if the CVR was on the verge of breaking up at a louder or softer volume than my DRRI or low powered tweed twin. It’s really hard for me to tell how an amp will perform until I actually play it in a band setting. The store may be willing to let me use it at our next practice.

Thanks Again!


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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:04 am
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It's funny you mention the DRRI because I also did an A/B comparison with one when I purchased my CVR. I found the DRRI to be very jangly and sparkly sounding but I really preferred the more tight and focussed sound of the CVR.

I don't find the headroom to be an issue at all. If you're playing in a particularly loud band and you're looking for blunt force cleans then by all means look at a different amp.

Oh yeah, the hiss... I feel the complaints of this are seriously exaggerated. Yes, it does have a low level hiss and you sometimes hear some interesting noises from the tubes, but only when it's sitting there at idle. If you're used to single coil pickup hum then you won't even notice the amp.

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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:37 am
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beckologist wrote:
Thanks. Forgot about the channel mixing. Jumping the channels may increase the volume. The CVR would be easier to transport than my low power tweed twin, but still usable for smaller gigs and practice without being mic‘d. The DRRI (with an ALNICO speaker) doesn’t quite cut it in this role . Mostly because of the bottom end getting real flubby. I liked the way the bottom held together on the CVR.

Other than the reverb, which seems to be an issue with this particular amp, I was impressed with the amp. There was a little bit of hum that people have mentioned , but nothing unmanageable outside a recording studio. Without having my amps right there to compare, it was difficult to judge if the CVR was on the verge of breaking up at a louder or softer volume than my DRRI or low powered tweed twin. It’s really hard for me to tell how an amp will perform until I actually play it in a band setting. The store may be willing to let me use it at our next practice.

Thanks Again!


I suspect the 'flubiness' of the DRRI bottom-end, may be a function of the speaker?

I've just installed a Celestion Gold in my DRRI (see my other recent post) and the thing that struck me immediately was the definition available in the sound when hitting a low E with some distortion: tight, controlled and musically very pleasing.

FBB.

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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:17 pm
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Quote:
I suspect the 'flubiness' of the DRRI bottom-end, may be a function of the speaker?

I've just installed a Celestion Gold in my DRRI (see my other recent post) and the thing that struck me immediately was the definition available in the sound when hitting a low E with some distortion: tight, controlled and musically very pleasing.

FBB.


lol
Ordered a 50 watt Weber 12a150 to replace the stock Jensen P12Q in my DRRI. It may help a bit with the 'flubiness'. The Weber 12a150 should also warm up the tone. The stock Jensen P12Q produces anything but a warm tone in the DRRI. I thought breaking it in would help, but it is still overly bright for my tastes.

The Weber should be here in about a week. Can't wait the hear the results.


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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:53 pm
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Well, I bought the CVR. It did have a bad reverb tank. Gigged with the amp last weekend, and it exceeded my expectations. The channel mixing, touch sensitivity and early break-up make this the perfect gigging amp. It is a completely different amp when plugging into both channels simultaneously.

We played a small venue, and with the early break up on this amp there was no need for an OD pedal. It was really nice to be able to play without a pedal(s) coloring the tone, or killing the dynamics of the amp. I was still able to clean it up enough to play a few “belly rubbing” tunes over the course of the night.

This amp is every bit as responsive as a 5E8A Twin, but can be played at a volume that won’t pull the plaster off the walls. The hiss that everyone complains about is over exaggerated. I was standing right in front of the amp during a break, and the air coming out of the heat vent over my head was louder than any hiss coming from the amp. The only thing I would change about this amp is the name.


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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:14 pm
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Awesome! Thanks for the follow up report. Too bad about the reverb tank. At least that doesn't really get in the way of using the amp as a whole.

Glad you like it! I'm a huge fan of these amps too. Was just playing mine today and had it up there into OD territory. It really does have a very pleasing overdriven tone.

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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:44 pm
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I bought a CVR off ebay. I could not believe that Fender amplifiers would ever, put an amp with so many problems on the market. Bruce Zinky designed the changes that messed the CVR up, badly. Now, Zinky makes great amps. He designed the Prosonic for Fender, which was a great amp. "Zinky" boutique amps are real good. Anyway, after putting in all new tubes, I sent into John Fromel electronics. I bought the CVR modding kit [$29 ]which is based on the "Moyer Mods" with additional components that straightened all out the problems. I also had his total recap kit put in and now my CRV is the best sounding Fender amp I've had.


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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:16 pm
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rednefceleb wrote:
I bought a CVR off ebay. I could not believe that Fender amplifiers would ever, put an amp with so many problems on the market. Bruce Zinky designed the changes that messed the CVR up, badly. Now, Zinky makes great amps. He designed the Prosonic for Fender, which was a great amp. "Zinky" boutique amps are real good. Anyway, after putting in all new tubes, I sent into John Fromel electronics. I bought the CVR modding kit [$29 ]which is based on the "Moyer Mods" with additional components that straightened all out the problems. I also had his total recap kit put in and now my CRV is the best sounding Fender amp I've had.


In other words, you bought an amp without hearing it first, hated it, and had it modded so it was no longer a CVR. Well, some of us like them the way Zinky intended. Your opinion is your opinion. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the CVR stock.

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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:58 am
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Quote:
I sent into John Fromel electronics. I bought the CVR modding kit [$29 ]which is based on the "Moyer Mods" with additional components that straightened all out the problems.


Per Fromel's web site he is restoring the glory of the Vibrolux Reverb to this reissue. Only problem is that this amp isn't a reissue! I maybe mistaken, but this amp isn't even based on a Vibrolux Reverb circuit, but on the Vibroverb circuit. So you spent additional money to have someone hack your amp that doesn't even know that the amp isn't a Vibrolux Reverb reissue.

Out of curiosity what were the problems? Every time someone talks about the "problems" with these amps they seem to be complaining about the early breakup. If you add the negative feedback loop you will lose the dynamics of the amp. Plus you will have to add a pedal to get it to breakup at a reasonable level. At that point you may as well be playing a SS amp.


As for the hiss; here is an interesting story. I was looking at two factory new CVRs at different shops. Neither amp had an overly offensive hiss. I bought mine from shop A. A few days later I was in Shop B and the CVR there was no longer on the floor and apparently was sold (as per the salesman). A couple weeks later the same CVR is back on the floor at Shop B. Only now it has a completely new set of JJ's. It was still tagged as new. Curious about how the amp would sound with JJ's I gave it a try. The amp now had a hiss that was unbearable. It also had more headroom, but not much. Not sure what had all been done to the amp, or who did the work, but the amp was a mess. Someone was probably going to "fix" the problems, and trashed the amp. The scariest part is that it was being sold by Shop B as a "new" amp. Think of how many people are going to walk into that shop and think that amp represents a factory new CVR. The hiss on these amps, when the amp is correct, is very minimal. I just recorded with my CVR last week with no problems relating to hiss.


The whole tube replacement thing is way overblown in my opinion. There are subtle differences, but a person’s ability to play makes more of difference. I bought my CVR from the company that provided the back-line for the Summerfest music festival (http://www.summerfest.com/2011headliners/), and got a few hundred dollars off because it had been used on stage for 10 days. All these amps were straight out of the box stock amps with stock tubes. These were used by some pretty big name acts that didn't seem to suffer from using stock equipment.

I'm sure I will now get flamed, but so be it.


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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:49 pm
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beckologist wrote:
I'm sure I will now get flamed, but so be it.

Get ready! :mrgreen:

beckologist wrote:
The whole tube replacement thing is way overblown in my opinion. There are subtle differences, but a person’s ability to play makes more of difference.

I have to disagree... the right tubes are just as important as any other mod, like speakers for example. Finding the right tubes and setting the bias will turn an ok sounding amp into a very sweet sounding amp.

I agree with your second statement, but a person's ability to play will only improve and sound better when the amp is performing at its best.


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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:02 pm
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cedarblues wrote:
Finding the right technique and spending time practicing will turn an ok sounding player into a very sweet sounding player.


I fixed that for you. :wink:

The point beckologist was trying to make is that there's nothing wrong with the CVR stock. And from the example, someone purchased that other amp that was working fine, and then proceeded to do *something* to it, and then returned it when it now sounded terrible.

And really, a player should probably spend a little time learning how to use an amp - finding out what it's capable of - before popping the hood and changing things out.

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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:13 pm
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Powdered Toast Man wrote:
The point beckologist was trying to make is that there's nothing wrong with the CVR stock. And from the example, someone purchased that other amp that was working fine, and then proceeded to do *something* to it, and then returned it when it now sounded terrible.

And really, a player should probably spend a little time learning how to use an amp - finding out what it's capable of - before popping the hood and changing things out.

Beckologist also said

Quote:
Not sure what had all been done to the amp, or who did the work, but the amp was a mess.

We can't assume that it was just the JJ tubes in there... plus we don't know who the person is that bought the amp and whether he needs to spend time learning how to play, he could be a pro or a working musician that wanted to make the amp sound the way he wants it to but didn't have any luck...

I wouldn't spend any money on a CVR, too many musician friends reported problems with hiss and I didn't personally care for its tone, plenty other amps out there for me... :wink:

Quote:
Finding the right technique and spending time practicing will turn an ok sounding player into a very sweet sounding player.

Thanks, but I don't want to be a "very sweet sounding player"! :mrgreen:


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Post subject: Re: Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:21 pm
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cedarblues wrote:
Thanks, but I don't want to be a "very sweet sounding player"!


I'll say!

You got the meanest licks in Tampa, CB.

8)

Arjay

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