It is currently Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:08 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 48 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
Post subject: Re: All About Tubes
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:47 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
Retroverbial wrote:
No JAN vacuum tube ever required any "babying" save for a few ultra high-power microwave transmitter tubes (thyratrons, magnetrons, klystrons, and the like).

Arjay


True story: In one of my first jobs, I was watching a grizzled old Navy Chief check out an AN/SPS-48A (I think that's the correct designation) 3-D air search radar. He claimed that he tested the klystron power supply by tapping the terminal where the power supply lead connected to the tube. He proceeded to demonstrate, drawing about a foot long arc. Now I had no idea whether he was telling me the truth about what he was doing or not, but it scared the crap out of me. I did notice that he had a lot of burns on his hand and fingers, though. :lol:

_________________
Bill

Image


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: All About Tubes
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:24 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
bluesky636 wrote:
I did notice that he had a lot of burns on his hand and fingers, though. :lol:


LMFAO

You can always tell a rust-picker......you just can't tell him much!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: All About Tubes
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:20 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:02 pm
Posts: 43
I just went with thetubestore.com suggestions for the ss22

http://thetubestore.com/sba-fender-supe ... -22-3.html

Looked like a good match and the power tubes were match

I would have just messed up the purchase if I Tried to mix and match.

I will try to record some samples soon.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: All About Tubes
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:25 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 9640
Location: Indiana
Wow! An all JAN set sounds like a pretty righteous choice to me. :!:

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: All About Tubes
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:59 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 6544
I believe that those JAN mil spec tubes were the last sets made in the old Owensboro, KY (GE) and Eatontown, NJ (Philips ECG) plants. Pretty good tubes.

Just a bit of trivia. The reason for tube production well into the 1980's, was tubes are less succeptibe to electromagnetic interference from lasers ("star wars" technology to protect satellites from Russia shooting lasers and disabiling them). Also, to supply countries that had older equipment bought from US military suppliers.

Enjoy those tubes. Should last a good long time.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: All About Tubes
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:16 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:32 pm
Posts: 1384
Location: uɐʇsıʞɔnuɐɔ 'puɐlʇɐlɟ
That thetubestore does have some good looking re-tube kits, also some bad info on their pages.

I looked up the good'ol Blues Deluxe and Blues Deville kits and it say these amps have a non adjustable fixed bias. From what I remember both our Blues Deluxe RI's (may they rest in pieces) had a bias pot on the board.
I believe the original non RI versions may have had a fixed bias but the RI are adjustable.

Minor info flaw on the web pages, but it helps to know your amp before trying to change the power tubes.

_________________
Keep on Truckin, Going full speed ahead down the highway to hades.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: All About Tubes
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:46 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
peterp wrote:
Minor info flaw on the web pages, but it helps to know your amp before trying to change the power tubes.


+1

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: All About Tubes
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:03 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 9640
Location: Indiana
Good eye peterp. They completely neglected the Blues RI amps with adjustment pot, and only listed the original amps which were non-adjustable. You might send an email, or call them and see if they would list the RIs too, or point out the difference at least, very helpful people there. :idea:

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: All About Tubes
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:32 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:32 pm
Posts: 1384
Location: uɐʇsıʞɔnuɐɔ 'puɐlʇɐlɟ
Yep, I sent them off a note to let them know about the omission.

_________________
Keep on Truckin, Going full speed ahead down the highway to hades.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: All About Tubes
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:06 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:32 pm
Posts: 1384
Location: uɐʇsıʞɔnuɐɔ 'puɐlʇɐlɟ
That was quick thetubestore has updated the blues deluxe/deville pages to say the amps do have adjustable bias :)

_________________
Keep on Truckin, Going full speed ahead down the highway to hades.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: All About Tubes
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:24 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
It's refreshing to learn that some vendors do in fact heed factual input from the general public.

Rawk on!

8)

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: All About Tubes
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:11 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:50 am
Posts: 2
Location: St Petersburg Russia
The problem I see with new production is the great variability and so many tubes getting similar designations when they are do not have the same transfer functions of the definitions of the numbers plastered on them. Many are fine tubes but few are close to the same curve families that they are imitating.
I notice that none of the current companies publish curves for their tubes, only cryptic rating numbers which have nothing to do with dynamic signal performance.

Another problem with tubes are the users who have borrowed the fantasy terminology of the hi-end hi-fi which proposes spiritual or ethereal qualities to tubes...."This model is brittle but with a slightly glossy sheen in the afterglow of the notes" when referring to a cable...er a "interconnect" or a speaker plinth supposed contribution to what they hear. The same sort of non-sense has invaded tube amp users who regularly place labels on tubes about characteristics that tubes can't have.

When you hear such claims just ask yourself who is trying to get how much money from whom. It is not technology but witchcraft and has no place in engineering or playing
With so little controls of the variables in tubes between individuals and by lots, making any sonic trait claims about the tube is non-sense. Someone might like how a tube amp sounds with one tube in it but it does not follow that the tube had any special traits to cause it. There are a million other variables which are just as or more likely to be introducing a perceived difference. Guess work seems to be the rule now, few people analyze the circuits or tubes, or consult engineering references to find out how deviant their parts are from what they are assumed to be. I know a number of the current tube re-branders pretty well and none do technically competent analysis on their tubes, transformers and other after market parts. The say it is a new reissue XXX tube but have no way to prove it or know themselves. But that is good enough for sales.
Why do they not publish curves? Because they can't or don't what customers to see that they are not getting what is marked on the tube box. It is easy to do by hand if they bothered to take the time and trouble but apparently it is beyond the marketers to know or care. Even such test instruments as tube curve tracers are not in any of the companies making performance claims for their tubes. They will say "this one is a 56" without telling a builder/designer what in the heck the number represents. A static cathode current with a test circuit with unknown anode load, unknown anode voltage, triode strapped screen grid, is much more misleading than informative. The question should be "yeah but what are its conduction characteristics in a realistic dynamic signal, at real plate potentials with real world loads?" When the rare company does publish characteristic curves they are just reprinting old tube handbook graphs which are NOT of their own tubes.
I have a curve tracer in my lab and regularly do circuit analysis on amps and tubes that come my way and shake my head when seeing what is being passed off as 6L6s, EL34's 12AX7s. There are a couple dozen brands selling "5881, 6L6, 6V6," style tubes which are all 6П3с-е Russian Soviet era tubes which are fine tubes and rugged but are NOT 6L6's. Plotting the curves reveal a different animal entirely. If an amp is designed around them, it is fine, they will be rugged and long lasting with suitable dynamic signal performance. But most of the time they being plugged into circuits optimized for different characteristics. Manufacturers of new amps have the advantage of being able to start with what is, instead of what use to be, and design around what their supply resources will be.

NOS is not the answer they are too expensive now to play gigs with and besides any tube sitting as long as those have will likely have measurable changes, gassing is measurable and inevitable, particularly in power tubes.
One reason the flim flam artists are getting their payday selling anything as the new hot tube is because there is no tradition of creating benchmarks or reference performance tests. People rely on subjective uncontrolled listening tests which are notoriously inaccurate in double blind tests. A minute difference in playing pressure will swamp any differences a tube could possibly make, coupled with poor memory of sounds. We remember our impressions formed at the time of a sound but not sounds very well. Our brains just do not function for sound the way it does for some other senses such as smell which are very long lasting. Double blind tests with re-amping has embarrassed a lot of golden ears and revealed a lot of scams in hi-end hi-fi. I've done a bit of those types of controlled perception tests in my recording studio over the year and you can learn a lot about suggestion, subject-feedback relationships but not much about what something really sounds like.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: All About Tubes
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:30 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 6544
Hey km6xz, is it true that the old Svetlana plant in St. Petersburg has stopped making vacuum tubes?

Thanks!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: All About Tubes
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:14 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
km6xz wrote:
NOS is not the answer they are too expensive now to play gigs with and besides any tube sitting as long as those have will likely have measurable changes, gassing is measurable and inevitable, particularly in power tubes.


:?:

NOS is basically all I'm playing and all I've ever played. I do have a few "new" tubes and tube sets but the lion's share of my amps (a "baker's dozen" now, most of them true vintage) are tubed with US-built glass -- many of them mil-spec JAN's. I have an extensive stock, likely enough to last until I begin my dirt nap. Beyond that event, I could care less.

:mrgreen:

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: All About Tubes
Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:53 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:10 pm
Posts: 5646
Location: Gateway to the West
Retroverbial wrote:
km6xz wrote:
NOS is not the answer they are too expensive now to play gigs with and besides any tube sitting as long as those have will likely have measurable changes, gassing is measurable and inevitable, particularly in power tubes.


:?:

NOS is basically all I'm playing and all I've ever played. I do have a few "new" tubes and tube sets but the lion's share of my amps (a "baker's dozen" now, most of them true vintage) are tubed with US-built glass -- many of them mil-spec JAN's. I have an extensive stock, likely enough to last until I begin my dirt nap. Beyond that event, I could care less.

:mrgreen:

Arjay


So I should keep in touch with Mrs. Retroverbial...just in case? :lol: :lol: :lol: Not wishing anything bad coming your way of course!

T2

_________________
-----------------------------------------------------------
What time is it? It's Fender Time.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 48 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: