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Post subject: Re: Deluxe Reverb Reissue Keeps Blowing Fuses
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:58 am
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I hate to "BUMP" an old thread but, I have a Fender Hotrod Deluxe that I have a love hate relationship with. "I love it when it works and hate it when its busted." Any how I am almost experiencing the issues with this amp. However the only difference that I am having is the fact that I can get about 5-10 min out of the amp before it blows the fuse, I'm not pushing the amp that hard. I'm running the clean channel at about volume level 3. I already called my amp tech to have him take a look at it, but I hate to pay money if its as simple as changing a bad tube. Any one know what else it could be. Again I can power it on and take it out of stand by, but I only get about 5-10 min of playing time before the fuse blows.


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Post subject: Re: Deluxe Reverb Reissue Keeps Blowing Fuses
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:21 am
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It could be a bad tube, maybe output. It would be fairly easy to try a new set. Replace both output tubes as a matched set and be sure to set the bias with new output tubes. Of course, not knowing how old the amp is, it might be due for filter caps and other maintenance anyway. I would certainly check the bias on the tubes that you have first and make sure you are using the correct fuse, a 3 amp, 250 volt fast-blow is the correct fuse. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: Deluxe Reverb Reissue Keeps Blowing Fuses
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:23 am
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Well, I did get a quad set with an explanation that they could be all be biased with in a safe level from each other making them interchangeable. I guess I could try those. Will Give you an update in about 10 min LOL


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Post subject: Re: Deluxe Reverb Reissue Keeps Blowing Fuses
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:33 am
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LOL WoW Okay! I just swapped out the old tubes with new tubes and Now I have the exact same issue with the amp. Unfortunately I only had one fuse left. but here was mat steps in detail.
1. I Unplugged the amp
2. Pulled both 6L6GC tubes
3. Replace both 6l6GC tubes with another matched pair
4. replace the blown fuse.
5. plugged in the power.
6. tuned the amp on, with standby engaged.
7. plugged in my guitar. (same guitar I have been playing with)
8. Turned the amp from standby to on, got a strange loud hum and then blown fuse. :(


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Post subject: Re: Deluxe Reverb Reissue Keeps Blowing Fuses
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:55 am
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Any idea if the bias was correct before and after the tube swap?

Well, to put a positive spin on it, you have likely eliminated the tubes as the problem if the bias is set properly. Time for a check up with a tech, as it seems that you might have a power supply issue, possibly the filter caps. The problem could be a number of things. If you have a meter and know how to use it, and can read the schematics, we can go through the amp and check the supplies if you want. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: Deluxe Reverb Reissue Keeps Blowing Fuses
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:04 am
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from what I understand the biasing was set from the amp tech. Made sure that all the tube I got (in the quad set) where at a point that they could be swapped out. But to be honest with you, When the power tubes were swapped I really didn't have time to check the biasing it died right away.


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Post subject: Re: Deluxe Reverb Reissue Keeps Blowing Fuses
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:21 am
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If the tech set the bias for two of the quad, then the other two should be plug and play, so you're likely good on bias. The only sure way to know, is to put a meter on the test point and check.

I am not a fan of replacing a blown fuse just to try it, and if done and the second fuse blows, you must check for the problem before replacing the fuse again. If you don't find a problem, do not replace the fuse again and try, it can do more damage. Usually, at the point of the second fuse blowing, further testing should be done with the all tubes removed. Actually, the amp should be checked thoroughly before ever replacing a blown fuse. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: Deluxe Reverb Reissue Keeps Blowing Fuses
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:46 pm
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I wish I was as lucky as the guy before hand, But........I just took the amp "My amp guy" Good fella I found on Craigslist. He does good work for cheap and usually get a 24 hour return time. Well I have to pick the amp up in about 2 hours from now. He tested the tubes (all four) and found that all of them still appear to be fine. But that there was a bad diode located near the power tubes he didnt say much about what the diode was used for other than he said its a "Tube killer". So $65 dollars later. and at the suggestion of my amp guy 45$ or so for new power tubes. Were looking at about a little over 100$!
So Looking back
When I got it, I had to dish out
75$ to get all the solder joint reinforced
65$ for a new set of tubes.
and now 110$ for the current repair.
Thats a total of = 250! And I've only own the amp 2 years.

So thats like having this amp averages out to 125 year maintenance.
Im wondering IS IT WORTH KEEPING??????


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Post subject: Re: Deluxe Reverb Reissue Keeps Blowing Fuses
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:06 pm
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Lets hope your all done for a while !

Many good years of service to ya !!!!

Or if your feeling bad vibes towards it, just let it go and find yourself a nice solid DRRI

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Post subject: Re: Deluxe Reverb Reissue Keeps Blowing Fuses
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:09 pm
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Lol i think i spoke too soon. The diode wad fixed but. He states he not going to charge me for because he suspects that power transfer is bad. He claims that i can get one relativley chesp and i can. And he states that i csn replace it, which im sure i can. So now im thinking. What next, he says thst hed about 80 % positive that its the trandformer, but i talked to another buddy of mine who is no amp tech but military trained tovwork on electronics and he said any thing could cause a blown fuse. But the amp tech says there is not much before the fuse but that the transformer was the major source before the fuse. Any one care to comment?


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Post subject: Re: Deluxe Reverb Reissue Keeps Blowing Fuses
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:15 pm
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My God, forgive my last post I was forced onto my cell phone to make it. I realize that it is full of typos.
Bottom line though, Amp guy says that it has to be the transformer and there is nothing else that it could be since now the Lamp indicator no longer works?

But my friend who is trained by the military to work on electronics, but has never worked on an amplifier claims that there should be a reason a transformer goes bad.


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Post subject: Re: Deluxe Reverb Reissue Keeps Blowing Fuses
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:46 pm
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You describe the guy as a "good fella that does good work cheap", and he has the amp in front of him, he should be able to test the transformer. However, I'm puzzled by a few things.

80% sure it's the transformer? No reason that the transformer couldn't be isolated to be sure whether bad or not. It could be an unusual problem, but typically when a transformer goes, you will know for sure.

Tube killer? The diodes near the output tubes are to protect the tubes, not sure what diode he was talking about. Fly-back maybe?

The tubes tested fine, but he still recommends new tubes? Kind of self explanatory.

...tech says there is not much before the fuse... Yes, the only thing before the fuse is the electrical plug, so anything in the amp could cause the transformer fuse to blow.

Typically, there is a cause for a transformer going bad, they usually just don't fail, although it is possible. And almost always it will fail in a way that there is no doubt about it.

I would expect that if the transformer was replaced, and that wasn't the problem, that you shouldn't have to pay for it. I have doubts that the transformer is bad, but your tech has the advantage of having the amp in front of him.

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Post subject: Re: Deluxe Reverb Reissue Keeps Blowing Fuses
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:58 pm
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I see I might have to explain some things.
Keep in mind that I only have a working knowledge of electrical repair. So when he starts to explain everything to me its like "Drinking water through a fire hose." I'm trying to explain what he says as best as I can remember and at the best I tried to understand.

I currently have have been taking online amp repair lessons on troubleshooting Tube amps via Youtube (Hey, dont knock it. You have to learn the basics from somewhere. and there is A LOT of great information with pics and walk throughs on there). Really about my self I am a do it your self kind of guy. I Have a computer Science degree and build my own computers, I have done just about everything in the Home Depot Home repair book in include, install ceiling fans, timer switches, out door security lamps, I set up all my guitars, fix busted guitars, repot pickups, rebuilt a car front end, instead of replacing a car starter I buy the repair kit and rebuild my own starters, Rebuilt a car font end, you name it. just never really worked on high powered amplification
But its frustrating me that it seems so simple yet with out understanding the language It seems too intimidating

But I Digress.

About the 80% its the transformer... I agree, Just watched the video on how to test a power transformer, seemed pretty simple. Not to mention there was a video called "The tube amp Survival guide", or something like that. which explains (from what I took away from it)
if you pull the power tubes and when powering on and it blows a fuse = bad power

The Tube Killer...Still not sure what He meant by this either but he tested and found a malfunctioning Diode and replaced it. Cant be all that bad I guess.

Tubes tested OK but Recommends replacement.
.... This came about with him explaining that if there were any internal issues with internal components he would recommend replacing the tubes. he never told me I needed to replace them, that was just an assumption by me since a diode was bad. We never talked further about tube replacement.

that facts are as our last conversation: He didn't have a power transformer on hand so he was going to return it with no charge. Even though he swapped out a diode, he just claimed it wasn't a problem since he could truly fix the issue.
One red light was that...He asked me when the indicator lamp stopped working. "well" I told him, it stopped working a while back but it was an obvious blown bulb." and it was replaced about 3-4 days ago. He stated that now its not working and I assured him that it was working prior to me bringing it in. I asked if the light had burned out and he said that it was not the bulb. and this lead into the conversation that the Transformer was bad. So he stated that I could save money if I replace the transformer on my own. He said it was very simple and yeah I looked at it and I'm sure that with following all the safety precautions he mentioned, (which was basically unplug the amp take a picture of the old transformer and its connections, and write it all down. and ONLY touch the transformer and nothing else! wear rubber soled shoes. and unscrew the disconnect and unscrew the transformer, the screw in the new one. reconnect as per the previous pictures and I was told that everything was color coded. And that it was important to get ONLY Fender parts. So I think I can Handle that. Matter of fact I'm sure I can. )
He further mentioned that it could be just a loose wire or coil in the transformer and I cant remember if the he said the amp no longer powers on or if he said that the light was off but the tubes still glow. (I know that's crucial information, Sorry)

again from what I've done by swapping tubes and still witnessed the blown fuse and from what I have watched and read on the internet, I guess the next logical step is the power transformer. I should have done closer research before shipping it off.
My second New Years Resolution is to be efficient enough to fix basic tube amp issues.
Any good books out there in order to fill the brain with great amp repair knowledge? Keep in mind that my brain is like a glass of water so in order to learn about amp repair I guess I will have to forget College US History. LOL
well at least I have a back up Amp. Its not as sweet sounding as a fender but it will have to work for the meantime.


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Post subject: Re: Deluxe Reverb Reissue Keeps Blowing Fuses
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:22 pm
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Sorry for the re posting and re postings Its just that there is a whole wealth of knowledge and very informative people here, and I am very great full for all the bit and pieces of knowledge you through my way. So I got an email from the amp repair man and here it is straight from the horses mouth:

Mike,

After checking your amp and replacing a single diode.... (it was not the problem). The amp has some power problems not related to the power tubes.

At this point the 6.3 vac winding on the power transformer is out and possibly shorted to the internal core which is at chassis ground and that precludes any further testing as the amp will not turn on.

All tubes have tested good in my 12 watt amp.... so after the power transformer is replaced the amp can be tested and repaired (if needed).


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Post subject: Re: Deluxe Reverb Reissue Keeps Blowing Fuses
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:45 pm
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If the filament supply (6.3 volt) is out, then the transformer has to be replaced. It is easy enough to check the windings, and check to see if the winding is actually grounded, with a meter. Odd that you had the filament working before (tubes all lit up and power light on?) ... :?

Here is a copy of the schematic if you want do some checking on your own. The wires are color coded and are easy to spot the connection terminals on the circuit board.

http://support.fender.com/schematics/guitar_amplifiers/Hot_Rod_Deluxe_schematic.pdf

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