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Post subject: brand new Champion 600
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:04 pm
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i went to the Charlotte NC Guitar Center yesterday to get a case for my Les Paul and i ended up going home with a brand new Champion 600. i was really impressed with the sound for the price and size. this will work out great as a travel amplifier (way better than my big Traynor or my 1962 Bandmaster) there is just 1 thing i think ought to be changed and that is the speaker. i want one that wont break up quite so soon, the louder the clean tones can be, the better it is. i've already ordered a set of "soft" Sovteks a 12AX7 and a 6V6 but i need some suggestions for what speaker i need to get. i have had good luck with these tubes in other amplifiers keeping the clean tones clean, but i've never messed with such a small speaker though. like i said, i need something that will stay cleaner, louder, i dont do overdrive often. I was also thinking about doing an extension cabinet at some point in time with a 10 or a 12, with coverings to match the cabinet of the Champion, but for now i just want to go with a better 6" inside the combo. so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


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Post subject: Re: brand new Champion 600
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:23 pm
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Might I recommend the Weber Alnico 6. Not sure if there is enough room inside the cab for an 8.

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Post subject: Re: brand new Champion 600
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 3:13 pm
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+1 on the Weber Sig 6. The bigger magnet on the Sig 6 makes it difficult, to put in the longer bottles such as a JJ or even a 6L6, without the tube hitting the speaker magnet. Moving the speaker over about 3/4" allows taller tubes and plenty of clearance. The shorter bottles will fit just fine with the Sig 6 in the original position.

In addition to changing the speaker, changing the restrictive "drum-like" grill cloth can improve sound also. Many people are happier with the sound from the amp with only a change in the grill cloth, keeping the stock speaker. If you change the speaker, while it's out, seriously consider the cloth change too. I changed cloth and speaker, and if you can see, cut 3/4" off of one end of the baffle board, and drilled four new holes to reposition the speaker enough to be able to use the longer bottles (mainly a 6L6). And the amp sounds surprisingly big with an external 12" speaker cab.

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Post subject: Re: brand new Champion 600
Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:04 pm
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Ya'll might find this interesting:

http://www.specialtyguitars.com/champ-kit-install.html

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Post subject: Re: brand new Champion 600
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:11 pm
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Great little amp. I love mine!

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Post subject: Re: brand new Champion 600
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:15 pm
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I bought that kit from Specialty Guitars and after installing it I noticed little to no difference. It was a waste of time and money. I wish I would of left it stock. I did get a spare set of tubes though. :x


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Post subject: Re: brand new Champion 600
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:42 pm
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nopedal wrote:
I bought that kit from Specialty Guitars and after installing it I noticed little to no difference. It was a waste of time and money. I wish I would of left it stock. I did get a spare set of tubes though. :x


Maybe you didn't know what to listen for. Did you re-bias the power tube as recommended?

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Post subject: Re: brand new Champion 600
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:08 pm
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No I didn't rebias the tubes but it's not recommended. Maybe your right I don't know what to listen for. But you can't sell me on thinking this is a good mod. What is so wrong with the stock setup. I didn't have any complaints, if I did I would replace it with something else. I was just bored and the amp is cheap so I thought why not. It is an awesome livingroom amp and everyone that lives here uses it and a Blackstar HT5 combo. Playing out is a different setup.


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Post subject: Re: brand new Champion 600
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:52 pm
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nopedal wrote:
No I didn't rebias the tubes but it's not recommended. Maybe your right I don't know what to listen for. But you can't sell me on thinking this is a good mod. What is so wrong with the stock setup. I didn't have any complaints, if I did I would replace it with something else. I was just bored and the amp is cheap so I thought why not. It is an awesome livingroom amp and everyone that lives here uses it and a Blackstar HT5 combo. Playing out is a different setup.


I didn't say it was a good mod. I simply brought it to people's attention. I don't even own one of those amps. Its pretty common knowledge among those that know anything about tube amps that this amp is biased way too hot (as is the Pro Jr and Blues Jr). And yes, Specialty Guitars recommended that the amp be rebiased. They explained why and provided information on how to do it.

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Post subject: Re: brand new Champion 600
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:47 am
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bluesky636 wrote:
[quote="nopedal"Its pretty common knowledge among those that know anything about tube amps that this amp is biased way too hot (as is the Pro Jr and Blues Jr).



First of all the kit that I got it didn't recommend it they justy suggested it with a disclaimer.

I do own a Champion 600 and 2 Pro Jr's. I have used them at least twice a week for the last couple of years without a hitch. So what do you mean biased too hot? I leave the stock speakers and tubes in the PJ's. With these amps the bias is set and since I don't have a problem with them why should I gut my amps and change and/or add things? Common knowlege is overrated in my opinion.


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Post subject: Re: brand new Champion 600
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:48 am
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nopedal wrote:
Common knowlege is overrated in my opinion.


Clearly you are lacking in this area in general and in your knowledge of tube amps in particular.

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Post subject: Re: brand new Champion 600
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:04 am
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bluesky636 wrote:
nopedal wrote:
Common knowlege is overrated in my opinion.


Clearly you are lacking in this area in general and in your knowledge of tube amps in particular.


+1

What is "common knowledge" is, these amps are all factory-biased right on the verge of "the China Syndrome" and many of their output tubes melt down prior to the expiration of the 90-day warranty.

Your luck in this arena does not alter that irrefutable fact.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: brand new Champion 600
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:39 am
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Actually, looking at the schemo. The 470-ohm/22mfd bypass cap combo in the Champion 600 RI is around the same as the combo used in the original BF and SF Champs. Both have 220k-ohm grid to ground resistors---so the idle bias is probably close, as long as the plate voltages are about the same (my bet is the older Champs have higher plate voltages).

And the RI has grid stopper (1.5k-ohms) and screen resistor (470-ohms) that the original Champ did not.

So, what that may mean is the TUBE is the difference. A lot of today's 6V6GT just can't handle being dimed or "12" for great lengths of time. Like the older NOS RCA or Sylvania. I've had four TungSol 6V6GT RI runaway, at idle. If you are having issues, you may want to opt for TAD 6V6GT-STR or NOS 6V6GT's.

Champion 600 RI:

http://support.fender.com/schematics/gu ... ematic.pdf

BF Champ:

http://www.webphix.com/schematic%20heav ... _schem.pdf


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Post subject: Re: brand new Champion 600
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:28 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
[quot

What is "common knowledge" is, these amps are all factory-biased right on the verge of "the China Syndrome" and many of their output tubes melt down prior to the expiration of the 90-day warranty.

Your luck in this arena does not alter that irrefutable fact.

Arjay


It is true that I have no degree in electronics or tube amps. It is also true that I don't have any meltdowns ia any of my Fender set biased amps for the 2 years that I have used them and I can't ignore that irreutable fact.

So what are you trying to sell me?


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Post subject: Re: brand new Champion 600
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:40 pm
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nopedal wrote:
So what are you trying to sell me?


No ones trying to sell you jack. I posted a link to something that Champ 600 RI owner's might be interested in. You came in accusing me of of claiming it was a "good mod" when I said no such thing. You didn't like it? Fine. I really don't care. I'm glad that you have been lucky enough in the last two years with your amps. I hope your luck holds out.

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