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Post subject: WOOT new '57 champ woot
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:27 pm
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Hey, all I just got my new '57 champ ri today and I realy cant stop playing it! all i have to say about the tone is smooth butter damn I am in love . I have saved up and sold some other stuff to get it! I got a good deal 750 brand new. Man I am so happy I just wanted to share my joy ! :D rock on!


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Post subject: Re: WOOT new '57 champ woot
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:01 am
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Enjoy, enjoy 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

BTW, I've got a question: what about the power and versatily in a band ?

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Post subject: Re: WOOT new '57 champ woot
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:26 am
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I think for small gigs or mic for bigger gigs it cant get much better then this ! Here what I would do. Go to musicans friend.com the sell the mint used one for like $882 but they give you a 10% discount for the used item and it comes to like $782 with free shipping just try it out for 40 days to see if you like it if not send it back for a full refund which I think you wont want to :wink: its loud at 12 and your guitar at 10 but not ear bleeding loud just a real smooth break up like nothing els I have played .


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Post subject: Re: WOOT new '57 champ woot
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:15 pm
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Eight bills for five watts worth of nostalgia......

:roll:

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: WOOT new '57 champ woot
Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:36 am
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They are great little amps. I picked one up a few months ago. Traded even up for a Deluxe Reverb II that was purchased for $450. It had been on the showroom floor for quite a while. The tubes were bad so the tech replaced them under warranty with some NOS tubes he had laying around.

It is a loud little amp. Almost too much for the bedroom. Still I can't image gigging with it. I did use it at practice once while my DRRI was with the tech. Obviously it wasn't loud enough to cut through, so it was mic'ed.

The band is going into the studio soon and it will be used on several tracks. Amazing tone and breakup. If you like the sound of a tweed amp this is it. The price is steep, but it is about the tone, breakup, etc, and not just nostalgia. If you don't like/seek a tweed tone then yes, the price seems crazy and it would be all about nostalgia. But the same thing can be said about any piece of equipment.


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Post subject: Re: WOOT new '57 champ woot
Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:10 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Eight bills for five watts worth of nostalgia......

:roll:

Arjay


I agree. You can build one yourself and have money left over to build another one.

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Post subject: Re: WOOT new '57 champ woot
Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:28 pm
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When you say “you could build one” you must not mean me ;-) I could maybe change the tubes after you finished the build. This topic has come up before so I thought I would take a stab at putting some numbers together for conversation sake.

Fender 57 Champ

New Price = $1000
+ Labor = $0
- Residual value after 12 months = $480
(.60 of $800 This number seems high for a used 57 Champ, but it is the
number being used in the post)
12 month total cost of ownership = $520



Kit

New Kit = $499
+ Labor (2 hrs x $50 per hr) = $100
- Residual value after 12 months = $150
(.60 of $250 This is based on the asking price of a kit amp currently for
sale at a local shop)
12 month total cost of ownership = $449


Some of these numbers were obviously estimates. Anyone have more solid numbers? Based on this the total cost to own the Fender for 12 months is $71 more than a kit. There is also a $400 premium to get into the Fender which is not small change. I didn’t include the 12 months of lost opportunity cost of the $400 for the Fender. Say 1% over 12 months. That would roughly be an additional $4 for the Fender.


I personally was never able to justify the premium for the Champ. I was fortunate enough to find the Deluxe Reverb II selling for way less than retail and a shop that couldn’t sell the Champ (they were a Victoria dealer and had much better deals on the Victoria clones). However, they are great little amps and in the end don’t seem to cost much more than a kit.


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Post subject: Re: WOOT new '57 champ woot
Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:50 pm
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beckologist wrote:
I personally was never able to justify the premium for the Champ. I was fortunate enough to find the Deluxe Reverb II selling for way less than retail and a shop that couldn’t sell the Champ (they were a Victoria dealer and had much better deals on the Victoria clones). However, they are great little amps and in the end don’t seem to cost much more than a kit.


You might run a cost/benefit analysis using this paradigm by substituting a vintage 5F1 Champ. Figure the acquisition price at $1800 plus another $200 for any required maintenance and/or servicing. It'd be interesting to see how the amortized cost for a "real" Champ stacks up against the re-issue.

Gnome saing?

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: WOOT new '57 champ woot
Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:12 pm
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Hey Arjay,

Any idea of what the trade-in value would be of the vintage amp? I was going off of 60% of the going rate on Ebay or of units in the store. That has been my experience when trading or wholesaling modern equipment. The vintage market is something I don’t have any real experience with. I have a feeling a vintage amp would fetch more than 60% of the going rate on trade-in. It may also increase in value over the 12 month period. The other ones would probably have depreciated over 12 months, but I just ignored the depreciation.

We may need an actual Financial Analyst soon. Rather than some guy playing one on the internet :wink:

Any thoughts on the trade-in value for the vintage amp after a year?

thx


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Post subject: Re: WOOT new '57 champ woot
Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:24 pm
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I'd hazard a guess that the vintage 5F1 at $1800 would likely still fetch $1800 after twelve months of ownership -- perhaps a bit more depending upon what servicing was performed on it. Of course, this residual figure would need to be factored against any aggregate CPI inflation during that same one-year period. As well, the usual market-force motivators for vintage gear are somewhat sporatic right now -- some models remain in high demand (blackface PR, DR, VR, etc) while others have diminished in desirability (tweed 5F2's, brownface Concerts, silverface TR's, and the like).

JMO

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: WOOT new '57 champ woot
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:31 am
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$1800+ sounds right. I was looking for the trade-in amount. If someone walked into a shop and requested cash for the amp immediately. They would most likely not get retail. They would probably get closer to retail than someone trading in a non-vintage amp (just my opinion).

Fender 57 Champ

New Price = $1000
+ Labor = $0
- Residual value after 12 months = $480
(.60 of $800 This number seems high for a used 57 Champ, but it is the
number being used in the post)
12 month total cost of ownership = $520


Vintage Champ (60% trade value)

New Price = $1800
+ Maintenance = $200
- Residual value after 12 months = $1080
(.60 of $1800)
12 month total cost of ownership = $920


Vintage Champ (80% trade value)

Price = $1800
+ Maintenance = $200
- Residual value after 12 months = $1440
(.80 of $1800)
12 month total cost of ownership = $560


Of course none of this means anything if you don't wholesale the amp after 12 months.


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Post subject: Re: WOOT new '57 champ woot
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:48 am
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I got one from zzounds that was an open box, after I got it i see why the previous owner returned it. Same reason that I did, there was a nasty rattle/buzz coming from somewhere. Oh well I still got my pre-CBS Blackface champ :)


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Post subject: Re: WOOT new '57 champ woot
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:19 am
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It was probably baffle buzz. When they first came out, everyone I tried buzzed. Unacceptable to me for a 5 watt amp at that price point.

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Post subject: Re: WOOT new '57 champ woot
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:38 am
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As soon as it started to overdrive, there was some kind of noise that I could only hear after the notes started fading, would that been baffle buzz or just the speaker?


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Post subject: Re: WOOT new '57 champ woot
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:47 am
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Can't be sure without hearing it. I know it was a problem that was supposed to be addressed.
I love to just build a 5f1 into a small head cabinet and run it through a couple of 10's or 12" speakers. I've run my 76 Champ through my Egnater 112 briefly and it sounded awesome. I just want to get a Weber Impedance matcher so I won't have the mismatch and lose power.

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