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Post subject: Re: Amp Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III_ (headroom/dynamics) probl
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:53 pm
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As 63supro said, you may have different ideas than we do about what sound you want. Take my/anyone's recommendations with a grain of salt. But from the tubes that you are considering, my thoughts on those tubes as follows.

The GT-6L6-GE initially had some problems, but the problems were resolved and the newly manufactured ones are supposed to be very close to the original GE tubes in sound, construction and quality, and would probably sound closer to the old RCA tubes than any other newly manufactured tubes available (besides the actual old RCAs). I have not tried or heard these tubes, I've only read about them. Check the net for reviews and news about these tubes.

The GT 6L6-S will probably be a little more strident or tight sounding on the low end than the GEs, and not quite as warm as the GEs, but still great thumping lows. I have a set of these for my amp, and I did install and try them briefly, I'm trying to get all the mileage I can out of my 13 year old Sovteks first. They have a rich harmonic content, with very good lows and great mids and highs without being too bright. Of the new production 6L6s that I've used, these are my favorites. I biased them at around 90 mV at the test point with approx 430 Plate volts, and they sound great.

The JJ 6L6 has very good harmonic content, not great lows but good, and very good mids and highs, very bright sounding in comparison to the GTs, and the JJs are maybe a little louder sounding than the GTs.

For the preamp tubes, I think that a 12AY7 is just too low on the gain, but the 12AX7, 5751 and 12AT7 give a few possibilities. Using a 12AT7 in the V3 (pi) might work well.

1) 3 of these: http://www.thomann.de/pt/groove_tubes_12ax7r.htm

2) A 12AX7WA in V1, a 12AT7 in both V2 and V3. Considering V1 will shape the tone and give some gain, V2 will help tame the drive channel some (very nice), and give more clean, and V3 for a little more clean from the pi to drive the output tubes.

3) A 5751 in V1, a 12AT7 in V2, and a 12AX7WA in V3. A little less gain in V1 for more clean, V2 (same as above), and V3 more gain for the pi.

4) Lot's of other possibilities, but my setup is three GT12AX7-C (new generation Chinese), which made the drive channel sound very nice, and still maintained nearly as good a clean channel sound as the 12AX7WA that I used before. I find myself using the drive channel much more with the Chinese preamp tubes than I ever have before as the drive channel didn't really sound great to me. These tubes may have too much breakup for you.

The preamp tubes are relatively cheap, you could get a couple of each and try them in different positions to really fine tune the sound to just what you want. The 5751 may be more expensive than the others. But try a few and see how each sounds in each position. Each tube will have a different influence on the tone depending on it's position (V1, V2, or V3).

V1 is going to shape the tone the most. V2 is less important for tone shaping but will affect it some, it can help with more clean with a lower gain tube here, and half is used only for the drive channel. V3 (pi) has little or no affect on tone, but can add to the clean using a lower gain tube there also.

Just let us know what you use when done trying tubes, and make sure to set the bias properly if you install new output tubes. :)

Edit:
Make sure to get the "Red Label 8 to 10" if you get the GTs, for the most headroom. :idea:

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Last edited by shimmilou on Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Amp Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III_ (headroom/dynamics) probl
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:57 pm
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+1 If you only want Shimm's help, PM him.
We've stated the facts that the HRDlx in not designed to be a super clean amp. You just don't want to hear it. Mine always got a bit dirty around 3 or 4 on the volume dial because mine had a linear taper pot and went from zero to full bore by the time it hit 4 on the volume dial. It was designed that way to give it the feel of a much louder amp than it really was. Hot Rod, get it? The way it works, is if you want more clean headroom, you can either get a higher wattage amp, for example a Twin or a Super Reverb, and buy a truss or try playing with more efficient speakers, but I believe it's already using a Celestion and audio taper pots. That's yet another reason why I sold mine, It wouldn't do what I wanted it to do. It was a reliability and tonal disaster. You almost always hear I love my HRDxxx but................................. Nuff said. I just call em as I play em. I've been at this for over 44 years and the HRDlx was one of the worst amps I've ever owned and I've owned dozens over the years. By the way, the Twin has wheels. :mrgreen: I lugged my 1976 SF 100 watt tone monster around for 32 years. You don't get any more clean than that. I really don't think anyone can help you without properly recorded sound samples.

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Post subject: Re: Amp Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III_ (headroom/dynamics) probl
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:37 pm
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Ok thanks very much guys, I'll try that ones on the preamp and the 6L6 GE on the outpus.

Shimilou I'll check the Bias with the new setup installed (all the new outputs and preamps tubes in the slots) right?


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Post subject: Re: Amp Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III_ (headroom/dynamics) probl
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:04 pm
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Yes, a bias check is usually necessary any time that output tubes are changed. And, yes, set your bias with the new tubes installed first, and then try swapping preamp tubes around. Swapping the preamp tubes around should have very little or no affect on the bias setting.

I am definitely interested in your thoughts about the GT-GEs, report back when ready.

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Post subject: Re: Amp Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III_ (headroom/dynamics) probl
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:22 pm
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sorry for my bad english shimilou but what do you mean with swapping? :D

Don't worry my friend I'll send you a wave sample of my GT 6L6 GE's.

I saw a video on the youtube with GT 6L6 GE's, althought is a super reverb.
take a look and listen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXbNExNQs0


Big Hug and thank you very much for your help. You've cleared my mind.


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Post subject: Re: Amp Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III_ (headroom/dynamics) probl
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:45 pm
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Sorry. I simply mean trying a different tube in any one position (V1, V2 or V3), or as we say "swapping one tube for another". Swap means to trade or exchange. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: Amp Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III_ (headroom/dynamics) probl
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:30 pm
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get it.

:wink:


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Post subject: Re: Amp Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III_ (headroom/dynamics) probl
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:14 am
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Here's another tip for you. Be careful pulling the tubes because you may wind up causing the board to fail that the tubes are attached to. It's got a funky socket mounting system on the power tubes that allows the boards to flex a little. There are no flying leads from the tube sockets to the board. Bad solder joints on the tube sockets can cause some distortion issues too. If the amp is new, I'd send it back and get another one. If the new one is the same, it's time to look for an amp designed with more headroom. You'll never make a silk purse out of that sow's ear.

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