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Post subject: Re: Amp Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III_ (headroom/dynamics) probl
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:18 pm
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ok thanks a lot..
No ofense but I prefer talk with shimilou, and I know what's going on.
I've made specific questions and you not respond clearly to them.

Once again thanks.
:wink:


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Post subject: Re: Amp Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III_ (headroom/dynamics) probl
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:28 pm
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sg.andre, no disrespect intended, bit it sounds like you shouldn't be noodling around inside an amplifier. There are potentially lethal voltages inside, and even though Shim is quite knowledgeable, he can't do the physical work for you. One slip or a piece of jewelry touches something and you could be wearing a dirt shirt. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Amp Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III_ (headroom/dynamics) probl
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:35 pm
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63supro wrote:
sg.andre, no disrespect intended, bit it sounds like you shouldn't be noodling around inside an amplifier.


+1000!

Especially given the fact that the goddamm thing is BRAND-FOOKING-NEW!

Unless you are a qualified technician or electrical engineer (like "bluesky636") you should keep your dick-beaters out of that amp before you kill yourself or turn it into a crispy critter.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Arjay (who does not appreciate having his protege's reputation impugned!)

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Post subject: Re: Amp Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III_ (headroom/dynamics) probl
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:40 pm
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I haven't touched electronics of the amp, I just pull off the tubes and put them back in the slots again, with switch off and unplugged.

can you tell me PLEASE what maximum plate dissipation specs of a fender hot rod deluxe III for my output tubes I know that it depends on the tubes specs??


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Post subject: Re: Amp Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III_ (headroom/dynamics) probl
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:09 pm
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sg.andre wrote:
ok thanks a lot..
No ofense but I prefer talk with shimilou, and I know what's going on.
I've made specific questions and you not respond clearly to them.

Once again thanks.
.
.
.
I haven't touched electronics of the amp, I just pull off the tubes and put them back in the slots again, with switch off and unplugged.

can you tell me PLEASE what maximum plate dissipation specs of a fender hot rod deluxe III for my output tubes I know that it depends on the tubes specs??


Sorry. I'm done trying to help you. Based on the questions that you have asked, you clearly have no understanding about what you are trying to do. I provided you with several excellent resources to read so that you have a better understanding of what you are doing, but you appear to have chosen to ignore them. Without that understanding I am not interested in taking the time to hold your hand and walk you through all of the procedures that you are asking about. If shimmilou is willing to do that, more power to him. If you end up making your amp worse, or getting zapped poking into something that you shouldn't, don't come whining to us.

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Last edited by bluesky636 on Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Amp Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III_ (headroom/dynamics) probl
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:11 pm
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sg.andre,

I appreciate the confidence and compliment, but you have just gotten responses from three of the top amp guys on the forum, all probably more knowledgeable than myself. They offered some great advice.

Check out some of the links posted by bluesky636, and this may help clear up some questions that you have. The Plate voltage isn't directly adjustable, and it will vary only a few volts with an adjustment of the bias pot. The Plate voltage can be measured at either the brown or blue output transformer wires in reference to ground (chassis), brown for one tube and blue for the other.

The mV reading at the test point is for both output tubes, so only use half of the number for your calculations. The Plate voltage measurement, multiplied by half of the voltage reading at the test point, will tell you the idle wattage for one tube (roughly). For the tubes that you have, and assuming a Plate voltage of about 430 VDC (mine), with 78 mV at the test point, that would be roughly 15 watts to 17 watts per tube at idle.

When you do your own calculations, and figure your actual idle wattage, then just figure the percentage of the rating of your particular tubes, JJs being 30 watt tubes. So, 16 watts is just over 50% for the JJs. Generally 50% to 70% is the range to go for. About 78 mV to 90 mV at the test point would be a good setting for any of the tube types mentioned, provided that your Plate voltage is close to 430 VDC.

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Post subject: Re: Amp Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III_ (headroom/dynamics) probl
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:53 pm
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Ok shimmilou thanks a lot.
I'm not mad with anyone :o , on the contrary this forum help has been crucial to me.
The fact here is that you now gave me a concrete response to my question, besides that I've read the links that Bluesky gives me and I thank to him.

So, the tubes that bluesky provides me JJ 6l6GC's plus the same pack preamp tubes are the ones that provides me the BIGGEST HEADROOM at proper bias settings??? or there are better tubes for the most bigger and clean headroom with fender sweet tone?

thanks a lot.


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Post subject: Re: Amp Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III_ (headroom/dynamics) probl
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:22 pm
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:lol:

You are opening up a whole new can of worms when you ask which tubes are better.

JMO (just my opinion) but Groove Tubes GT6L6-S (Red label 8 to 10 rating) output tubes with Sovtek 12AX7WA for all three smaller tubes would give you a richer/cleaner sound than a JJ set, the GTs being much more expensive though. But many of the pros here have used JJs with great success, and the JJs are one of the least expensive tubes around these days.

If money is no object, a full set of NOS tubes like RCA would probably be the best sound, but a full set could cost nearly as much as your amp is worth. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: Amp Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III_ (headroom/dynamics) probl
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:18 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
If money is no object, a full set of NOS tubes like RCA would probably be the best sound, but a full set could cost nearly as much as your amp is worth. :idea:


Three of these:

http://www.tubedepot.com/nos-12ax7-janray.html

and two of these:

http://www.tubedepot.com/nos-6l6gc-rca-bp.html

ought to sound sweet. Note that the price given is for a single tube. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Amp Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III_ (headroom/dynamics) probl
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:23 pm
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sg.andre wrote:
or there are better tubes for the most bigger and clean headroom with fender sweet tone?


If that is your goal, you should have saved up and bought a Twin Reverb.

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Post subject: Re: Amp Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III_ (headroom/dynamics) probl
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:55 pm
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ok shimilou what about this ones?

GROOVE TUBES GT-6L6-GE duet:
http://www.thomann.de/pt/groove_tubes_gt6l6ge_duet.htm


GROOVE TUBES 6L6S duet (the ones that you told me right?):
http://www.thomann.de/pt/groove_tubes_6l6s_duett.htm

wich provides me the most clean headroom?


regarding the preamp ones:

can use 3 of these:
http://www.thomann.de/pt/groove_tubes_12ay7.htm

or 3 of these:
http://www.thomann.de/pt/groove_tubes_12ax7r.htm

or I must use 2 of those 12AY7 or 12AX7R, and one phase inverter like this one in V3 position:
http://www.thomann.de/pt/groove_tubes_12at7.htm

between 12AY7 and 12AX7R wich have the best clean response?


thanks a lot


Last edited by sg.andre on Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Amp Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III_ (headroom/dynamics) probl
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:12 pm
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I agree with bluesky. A Twin would do the trick. The HRDlx was never designed to be an amp with a ton of headroom. Personally, I'd dump the GT's and look to a JJ's kit from Eurotubes. :wink: Another thing you need to remember is that tone including headroom is all subjective and none of us here can actually hear your amp. I think you would get more usable headroom from a DRRI. You can list tube combinations all day long, but without seeing how you play, your amp settings etc it's all useless. You just need to try different things. That's one of the many,many reasons I sold my HRDlx.

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Post subject: Re: Amp Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III_ (headroom/dynamics) probl
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:00 pm
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63supro wrote:
I agree with bluesky. A Twin would do the trick. The HRDlx was never designed to be an amp with a ton of headroom. Personally, I'd dump the GT's and look to a JJ's kit from Eurotubes. :wink: Another thing you need to remember is that tone including headroom is all subjective and none of us here can actually hear your amp. I think you would get more usable headroom from a DRRI. You can list tube combinations all day long, but without seeing how you play, your amp settings etc it's all useless. You just need to try different things. That's one of the many,many reasons I sold my HRDlx.


Give it up (I have). The OP has already stated he is only interested in shimmilou's opinion.

This reminds me of the guy with the Pro Jr. and his never ending quest for the perfect tube.

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Post subject: Re: Amp Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III_ (headroom/dynamics) probl
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:17 pm
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Bluesky I'll buy a twin reverb if you carrie my future hernias on my back. I'm interested in all opinions, obviously I can't agree with the ones that will not help me, atending to my circumstances.
Please try to help me will you? I just don't want to have distortion in volume 3 on the clean channel, because I want to make the most out of this amp and make it worth the real money that I spend.

Tanks a lot.


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Post subject: Re: Amp Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III_ (headroom/dynamics) probl
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:30 pm
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sg.andre wrote:
Bluesky I'll buy a twin reverb if you carrie my future hernias on my back. I'm interested in all opinions, obviously I can't agree with the ones that will not help me, atending to my circumstances.
Please try to help me will you? I just don't want to have distortion in volume 3 on the clean channel, because I want to make the most out of this amp and make it worth the real money that I spend.

Tanks a lot.


I did try to help you, you just won't listen. Your amp is designed to break up early. It is not designed for the super clean tone that you seem to be chasing, hence the recommendation for a TR. No one here can tell you what a particular tube is going to sound like in your amp except for you. You can list all sorts of different tubes, but until you actually buy them and try them, you will never know.

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