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Post subject: Hot Rod Deluxe - Vibrating Noise
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:00 am
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Hi there,

I've just recently picked up a second hand Fender Hot Rod Deluxe. It's a limited edition one, the orange with racing stripes and the HDRX on the front grille.

Anyways, great sounding amp, everything working fine from what I can tell.

The only thing that's a problem is that when I got it home it seems to have developed a vibrating sound which I seem to have sourced to the power tubes. It's like a glassy, metallic vibrating noise that's physical. It's not coming out the speaker or anything.

It's vibrating at certain frequences - like if I play frets 5-8 on the G string, especially with the neck pickup of any guitar, the noise will be at it's worst. I pushed firmly but gently upwards on the power tubes while it was vibrating and they seem to be the source of it as that stopped 80% of the noise.

Anyone have any ideas on what I could do to stop it from doing this? It gets pretty loud and can be a bit intermittent, but when it's there it's a pain. I can't see how it could be a tube problem as there are no noise issues through the speaker, it's purely physical vibration from the actual tubes themselves. Could it have happened in transit as I was bringing it home?

Thanks in advance for any help! Will be much appreciated!


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - Vibrating Noise
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:05 am
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Spurious vibrational noise seems to be a common malady among contemporary glass.

The only solution to this dilemma is to replace the tubes and pray that the new ones don't develop the same symptoms. Vintage NOS bottles are less susceptible to this phenomenon.

HTH

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - Vibrating Noise
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:37 am
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Thanks for the quick reply. Really appreciate it!

So replacing the tubes is the only solution then? Is it at all an issue with amp itself or purely the tubes?

There seems to be a few other vibrations here and there at higher volumes. Is that normal? I guess these things should be pretty solid etc but at higher volumes and with deep bass it's normal for vibrations to turn up isn't it?

If I need to replace the tubes any suggestions? Where would I find Vintage NOS bottles? Groove Tubes are currently in it. Any suggestions as to a decent but less costly replacement?

Thanks again!


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - Vibrating Noise
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:59 am
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Agreeing on Retro comments, I've advices for you:
Make you test valve by valve and put a mark on each valve in order to know where they come from. You can buy GT/7ender or other types (JJ, Winged-C-, Sovteck, Tungsol, EH ...., it's only a question of sound feeling, quality and price ... Amplifier dealer usualy have a stock or kits, there is also web sites such as Eurotubes and so on.
V1 and V2 are 12ax7/ECC83, V3 idem but better with balanced triodes test. Some kits propose 12at7 or 12au7 in order to tame the amp .
By the way, if you change 6L6 power valves, the bias must be adjusted. If you open the rear of the amp, take care to high voltage that can be lethal.

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - Vibrating Noise
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:05 am
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Thanks again.

Another issue I feel is that the amp itself vibrates at higher volumes. Is this normal? This is not the metallic, glassy sound (which still happens), but instead more like vibrating of panels/grille/etc that sort of thing. It's like it's a result of the bassier notes. Like the cabinet iteslf vibrating possibly? Can that happen?

I'd greatly appreciate any more advice on the above issue too. Thanks!!


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - Vibrating Noise
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:21 am
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Check if a screew is unscrewed. 8)

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - Vibrating Noise
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:35 am
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Hi Mr DK,

If grasping the tubes gets rid of the noise, another possible solution would be to try some tube dampeners (apparently people call them "dampers" :? ). I use some of these on a few amps on all preamp and output tubes (links below), purchased from this same seller. And they do change the tone of the amp a little when they are installed. They "mute" or "dull" the ringing/glassy sounds just a bit, resulting in a little bit smoother sound, but not a lot of change. After trying some for the first time, I now use them as a preventative measure, especially in combos like the BJr and HRDlx. The HRDlx and HRDvl come stock from the factory with a foam dampener on the two preamp tubes (you can see the one on the HRDlx pic below).

For preamp tubes such as 12AX7:
http://cgi.ebay.com/8-TUBE-AMP-PREAMP-DAMPERS-6922-EL84-6DJ8-6N1P-12AX7-/370522572101?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5644ddc545

For output tubes such as 6L6:
http://cgi.ebay.com/8-TUBE-AMP-DAMPERS-EL34-6L6-GZ34-KT77-6CA7-5881-/370522571491?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5644ddc2e3

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Last edited by shimmilou on Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - Vibrating Noise
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:24 pm
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Thanks again for the replies guys. Greatly appreciated all the thoughts.

I've retightened all screws but that didn't make a difference to the cabinet/chassis vibration. Any ideas as to what else might be causing that? It's very much the low/bass frequencies that cause it to vibrate. Real pain.

Shimmilou, thanks for the info about tube dampeners, I'll try them before replacing tubes as they can always be used on new tubes too. They seem like a great idea.


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - Vibrating Noise
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:00 pm
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Are you sure that it is the amp and not a nearby cabinet, closet door, table, window, wall, fireplace insert, mirror, toy box, dishes, etc? Try the amp in another room, away from the wall, etc, and see if it is the same.

If you are sure that the amp is the problem, have you tried it with the back panel removed? A ribbon cable or wire or wire tie that is too close to the panel can vibrate and cause noise. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - Vibrating Noise
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:04 pm
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Mr DK wrote:
I've retightened all screws but that didn't make a difference to the cabinet/chassis vibration. Any ideas as to what else might be causing that? It's very much the low/bass frequencies that cause it to vibrate. Real pain.


Check the routing of the cables in the amp.

I was having a problem with cabinet vibrations in my Blues Delxue Reissue. What I found was that the ribbon cables were standing proud and vibrating against the back panel when it was installed. Other cables were also vibrating. The easy way to check for this is just remove the back panel and see if the noises go away. If they do, the solution is also simple. All you need to do is adjust the routing of the cables that are causing problems. I adjusted the position of cables and tightened tie wraps or installed new ones to pull the cables further back into the amp. After I adjusted the position of the ribbon cables, I ran a bead of clear silicone caulk along the ribbon cables where they loop over the circuit board to hold them in place. Finally, I added a small washer to each bolt on the inside of the back panel to space the back panel away from the cables. This got rid of 99% of the cabinet vibrations I was having. I got rid of the final 1% this past week. I found that the unsupported area of the back panel below the screws was resonating slightly. My solution was to add another layer of heavy aluminized tape on top of the layer that was already on the back panel. The amp is now mechanically dead quiet allowing me to crank it even louder with no cabinet vibrations. Now I just have to find and fix all the vibrations in my studio. :lol:

Edit: Shimmilou beat me by 4 seconds. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - Vibrating Noise
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 4:05 pm
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I agree, it's more than likely tube rattle. The HRDlx is a tube torture chamber for tubes due to the proximity of the tubes to the speaker. Combo amps tend to develop the problem eventually especially with current production tubes, but out of all the amps I've ever owned my HRDlx was the worst.
I solved the problem with tube dampers. Sorry Shimm, Damper IS the proper term. :wink: Damper is defined as "A person or thing that has a depressing, subduing, or inhibiting effect"
A Dampener is defined as "a device that dampens or moistens something".

I used these Dampers from Herbie's Audio Lab. They worked really well. Like Arjay said NOS tubes have less of a problem with tube rattle. They were just made better.
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/tube.htm

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - Vibrating Noise
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 4:34 pm
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63supro wrote:
They were just made better.


As were the vintage amps that used them......

:wink:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - Vibrating Noise
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:19 pm
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Yep, Yep Yep............. Those were seriously the days.

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - Vibrating Noise
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:37 pm
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63supro wrote:
...Damper IS the proper term. :wink: Damper is defined as "A person or thing that has a depressing, subduing, or inhibiting effect"
A Dampener is defined as "a device that dampens or moistens something"...


Well, dampen also means: to check or diminish the activity or vigor of : deaden <the heat dampened our spirits>

I guess that either one would work, both words have several meanings. When I hear damper, I think; damp, damper and dampest, or even; a valve or plate (as in the flue of a furnace) for regulating the draft .

Even though it sounds strange to me, I can go with damper for tubes, if that is what the cool kids are saying. 8)

Now, explain the "tremolo" on my guitar, it doesn't seem to fit the definition (JK). :lol:

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---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - Vibrating Noise
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:31 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
63supro wrote:
...Damper IS the proper term. :wink: Damper is defined as "A person or thing that has a depressing, subduing, or inhibiting effect"
A Dampener is defined as "a device that dampens or moistens something"...


Well, dampen also means: to check or diminish the activity or vigor of : deaden <the heat dampened our spirits>

I guess that either one would work, both words have several meanings. When I hear damper, I think; damp, damper and dampest, or even; a valve or plate (as in the flue of a furnace) for regulating the draft .

Even though it sounds strange to me, I can go with damper for tubes, if that is what the cool kids are saying. 8)

Now, explain the "tremolo" on my guitar, it doesn't seem to fit the definition (JK). :lol:


I use these from Eurotubes:

"EuroDamper Tube Damper Rings
Description: EuroDamper Tube Damper Rings. After experimenting with tube dampers in torture chambers (combo amps) for quite a while we finally decided to build them right. We had our own mold made for these and our “EuroDampers” are made from a softer than standard durometer, special high temp silicone. These are BIG dampers and the small rings for preamp tubes and EL84's measure 1.45 in diameter by .375 tall and the large rings measure .375 tall and 1.800 in diameter are usable on all 6V6's, GZ34's, EL34's and 6L6's. You can see high res pictures of these over on the website under “EuroDamper Tube Damper Rings”."

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