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Post subject: Re: DRRI Speaker Replacement
Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:42 am
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SaferSephy wrote:
thanks for the info guys!

Still it's funny to see how contradicting all the stories are. One saying AlNiCo is the way to go for the ultimate fender tone, while the other says its Ceramic

*confused*

I must say that I have both types of Webers in my vintage amps,alnico and ceramic...I usually go with what type came as the original,so I like both.
What you have to do is figure out how you want the amp to sound,is it bright and do you want to go a little darker and mellower,or the other way around....like everyone says,sometimes it's trial and error....and I for one am hesitant to suggest that someone buy a speaker for $100-$250 and then they wouldn't like what they have. :wink:


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Post subject: Re: DRRI Speaker Replacement
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:15 am
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Alright. I've had this little test run with my amp last night...find out what like and dislike so i can make a choice more easely.

First i tried the "Pull the V1 tube" trick. However this gave the amp too little headroom, and more preamp distortion. And i'm not a big fan of that, since preamp distortion seems to sound harsh instead of creamy.

So V1 back in, Weber Mini Mass attached, and put the amp to around 5. I've noticed that after 4.5 - 5 the amp starts to distort a bit. Then i've rolled back the volume of my strat a bit (i normally NEVER do that) and this gave me a great "on the edge of breakup" sound. Sadly when rolling back the volumepot on my strat and i have neck+middle setting going, it seems to kill some of the mid/treble, giving it a hollower sound.

Next time i'm going to try to get to this but without having to roll back volume on my strat so i keep the mid/treble.

Anyway i've noticed in general, once i go above volume 3 - 3,5 the tubes start to saturate and the sound then is a bit too aggressive in my opinion..the sound is pointy instead of round. I've heard that this is a common issue in the Deluxe Reverb RI amps, and this is where i want to make some improvements, making it sound more like a Super Reverb. Am I correct if i say that this will require a AlNiCo speaker, since they tend to be smoother?


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Post subject: Re: DRRI Speaker Replacement
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:30 am
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The alnico speaker will saturate and compress more quickly than an equivalent ceramic driver but frankly, I'm doubtful that you'll ever get your DRRI to sound like a Super Reverb. They're two different animals, and all the tube- and speaker-swaps in the world will not alter that fundamental fact.

But I've known some DRRI players who modded their amps to permit the installation of a pair of 10's (no sweat, there's plenty of room) and most of them reported that the amp sounded punchier and spankier -- much like the Super Reverb vibe they were seeking.

To perform this mod requires an all-new baffle (about $80 on Ebay), a pair of your favorite 10-inch speakers of 16Ω impedance, and some extra AWG18 hookup wire. Some of these fellows used Webers (both alnico and ceramic) while others installed Eminence Ragin Cajuns for a more modern tone.

Something to think about anyway......

HTH

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: DRRI Speaker Replacement
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:47 am
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Well,what you're going to have some trouble with is the breakup of the Deluxe Reverb or the RI as you go higher,it's the problem guys have had since Fender gave birth to them. :D once again I'm speaking from experience with the vintage amps so take that into account.
It all depends on how much drive you can tolerate,or enjoy....as with everything since the invention of the internet there's been all sorts of advice given on how to gain more headroom with these amps...some good and some not so good....many have tried solid state rectifiers and 6L6GCs instead of 6V6s,but I wouldn't go that route because it can cause a strain on other components.
The easiest thing to try is a speaker swap,and what you don't like in what you're hearing now could be from the speaker you have.A Weber 12F150 50w. ceramic with light dope like described on their website will stay cleaner,longer,and will have a smoother breakup...which will give some more headroom....
But like Arjay said,wise old bird that he is,(I won't say whether owl or hawk :lol: ),the DRRI or DR and Super Reverb are very different and you will only get a little of that SR sound with the DRRI...a fact thousands have been forced to accept. :D


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Post subject: Re: DRRI Speaker Replacement
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:41 am
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Rebelsoul wrote:
(I won't say whether owl or hawk :lol: )


:mrgreen:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: DRRI Speaker Replacement
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:20 am
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Since Ted passed Weber has gone downhill. I will personally never own another Weber made product.

My favorite speakers are Scumbacks made by Southbay Ampworks.

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Post subject: Re: DRRI Speaker Replacement
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:22 pm
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SaferSephy wrote:
So V1 back in, Weber Mini Mass attached, and put the amp to around 5. I've noticed that after 4.5 - 5 the amp starts to distort a bit. Then i've rolled back the volume of my strat a bit (i normally NEVER do that) and this gave me a great "on the edge of breakup" sound. Sadly when rolling back the volumepot on my strat and i have neck+middle setting going, it seems to kill some of the mid/treble, giving it a hollower sound.

The DRRI's sweet spot is 6+, I control the amount of breakup with the guitar's volume. I find that at 8 I get the sweetest tone, "edge of breakup". I have a Strat that tends to loose too much treble in position 2 and 4, after talking with the pickup builder he recommended changing the capacitor on my Strat, this Strat has .047 cap while my other Strat has .022 and doesn't have that problem. Something to look into. The only other way to fix that is to add a treble by-pass kit to the volume pot, I had it and after using it for a while decided to get rid of it. So check what your cap value is and go from there.

SaferSephy wrote:
Next time i'm going to try to get to this but without having to roll back volume on my strat so i keep the mid/treble.

Anyway i've noticed in general, once i go above volume 3 - 3,5 the tubes start to saturate and the sound then is a bit too aggressive in my opinion..the sound is pointy instead of round. I've heard that this is a common issue in the Deluxe Reverb RI amps, and this is where i want to make some improvements, making it sound more like a Super Reverb. Am I correct if i say that this will require a AlNiCo speaker, since they tend to be smoother?

Most of what you're describing can be had with speaker swap, as others suggested. I tried 4 or 5 different speakers, but 15" instead of 12", 'til I settled on one that gave me the tone I was after, and believe it or not very similar in tone to my SR. But still, the DR will never sound like a SR. With the speakers I tried I found one to be too clean and one too dirty, the Eminence Big Ben is right in the middle, that's the speaker I have in my amp.

Tubes and bias also play an important part is achieving your desired tone, but that's another subject :)


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Post subject: Re: DRRI Speaker Replacement
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:43 pm
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I don't own a DRRI but reading through your comments and observations I would suggest doing some research on the Emminence Cannibus Rex speaker for your amp. Just Googling it myself I read that a lot of DRRI owners have found that speaker to be a good match for the DRRI when they wanted to address some of the issues you are talking about, such as "smoothing" the tone and the price is pretty good for a quality US made speaker.

Just another suggestion really, but probably worth a look.


Snowy


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Post subject: Re: DRRI Speaker Replacement
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:51 pm
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No457 Snowy wrote:
I don't own a DRRI but reading through your comments and observations I would suggest doing some research on the Emminence Cannibus Rex speaker for your amp.

+1 if I still had an amp with a 1x12 I wouldn't hesitate to put that speaker in there.


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Post subject: Re: DRRI Speaker Replacement
Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:19 am
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what about this thing:

http://www.electrovoice.com/product.php?id=410


anyone has any experience of that in a Deluxe Reverb?


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Post subject: Re: DRRI Speaker Replacement
Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:37 am
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A 200-watt speaker in a 20-watt amp?

A bit of overkill, doncha think?

If you're serious then get serious......about an all-new baffle-board constructed of half-inch marine-grade birch ply. That EV is one heavy sonofabitch (about 22 lbs).

Oh yeah......you might think about installing a set of casters on the cab too.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: DRRI Speaker Replacement
Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:01 am
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CAFeathers wrote:
Since Ted passed Weber has gone downhill. I will personally never own another Weber made product.

My favorite speakers are Scumbacks made by Southbay Ampworks.

Why do you say that Chet?
I've bought speakers before and after Ted passed away and I still like them.


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Post subject: Re: DRRI Speaker Replacement
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:49 am
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Rebelsoul wrote:
CAFeathers wrote:
Since Ted passed Weber has gone downhill. I will personally never own another Weber made product.

My favorite speakers are Scumbacks made by Southbay Ampworks.

Why do you say that Chet?
I've bought speakers before and after Ted passed away and I still like them.



This should answer your question: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showth ... p?t=923953

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Post subject: Re: DRRI Speaker Replacement
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:35 am
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It doesn't seem to "answer" anything.

If you prefer the Scumbag speakers then by all means indulge yourself.

But I see no justification to diss Weber. They build a fine product.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: DRRI Speaker Replacement
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:39 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
It doesn't seem to "answer" anything.

If you prefer the Scumbag speakers then by all means indulge yourself.

But I see no justification to diss Weber. They build a fine product.

Arjay


Weber is the company that WAS building the Scumbacks.

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