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Post subject: Super and Twin in Head Form
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:45 am
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I'm curious about whether there would be general demand if Fender made the '65 Super Reverb and '65 Twin Reverb Vintage Reissue amps in head and cabinet form?

At 64 to 65 pounds, the combo versions of these amps are pretty heavy for convenient portability.

By splitting them into head and cab, the weight would conceivably be divided into 35 pounds or so components.

In addition, you would have speaker size and number flexibility.

I have owned a number of boutiques that are based on Fender circuits to get weight reduction and speaker flex. Although they approximate the sound of a Fender, it's not the same.

I would rather have a real Fender, but in a friendlier weight format.

Anybody else so inclined?


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Post subject: Re: Super and Twin in Head Form
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:12 am
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Fender has already BT-DT......about 35 years ago.

The Bandmaster Reverb was functionally equivalent to the Super Reverb while the Dual Showman Reverb was identical to the Twin Reverb combo. The separate speaker cabs for these behemoths were unduly-and-overly large, which limited their appeal and practicality.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Super and Twin in Head Form
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:12 pm
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As for the weight, just get one of these and be done with it.

http://www.homedepot.com/Storage-Organi ... ogId=10053

The real question would be in this day and age who still needs a Twin Reverb?

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'59? Bogen Challenger CHA-33, '65 Bandmaster, '65 Tremolux, 65 Showman;
'74 SF Princeton; '77 SF Princeton Reverb; Dr. Z Mini Z

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Post subject: Re: Super and Twin in Head Form
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:34 pm
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nedorama wrote:
The real question would be in this day and age who still needs a Twin Reverb?


I still gig regularly with one.

Increasingly though, I find myself using a pair of smaller amps -- lately my '64 Pro and my '64 Vibroverb clone.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Super and Twin in Head Form
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:04 am
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Paul, I'm with you 100%. I'm in the same place as you right now and have been checking out both vintage Fenders (such as the Dual Showman Reverb) and used to own a Bandmaster Reverb. I've also been talking with Arjay about a host options, models, and my hairbrained ideas (Thanks pal!!!!).

For me, for about the same money, it's a down to rolling the dice on a 50 watt Frenzel Super Twin Reverb head vs. getting a Twin and putting it in a headshell. They are monsters in a variety of ways, but nothing sounds like a Twin. Happy hunting!

Matt


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Post subject: Re: Super and Twin in Head Form
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:40 am
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Thanks Matt.

We play a lot of stuff that needs clean headroom, thus the interest in the Twin and Super.

With the plethora of boutiques that are lighter weight, I just wonder how many Super and Twin amps Fender is selling these days in combo form.

Only Fender knows this but, from a business perspective, are they selling enough of these amps at the right margin to make the ROI worthwhile?

Would they sell more if the form factor were head & cabinet and would that increase in volume justify the capital investment?

I'm just trying to get a read on what the potential customers think. Hopefully, this is useful to the company in making product and capital allocation decisions.


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Post subject: Re: Super and Twin in Head Form
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:31 am
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Interesting question Paul. FWIW, I wouldn't spend $13-1400 on a new 65 Twin reissue if it was the last amp in town. I say this because you can easily snag a used 65 Twin reissue or a silverface Twin for between 750-1000 (an even cheaper if you look around). If it's a beat up silverface (and you're talking about putting it in a headshell anyway) then it's a question a few more $100 to get the headshell (http://www.bandmateusa.com make very reasonably price headshells) and some new tubes etc. FWIW, I recently had the chance to snag two 65 Reissues that someone had gutted of their PCBs, re-handwired on to turret boards for $900 and one of them also had a pair of Weber speakers in it too.

Look around carefully. Obviously, getting an old Twin/Dual Showman/Bandmaster etc come with the add investment of getting them up to speed (i.e. tubes, caps/filters etc), but once they are, you're set. FWIW, I think that Fender has in many ways, fallen out of touch with what the more seasoned musicians want/need and what a reasonable selling price is,with the focus being on the younger players and the flavor of the week (i.e. modeling). Just my two cents.

I'm headed out now to go check out a Twin at my local amp guru's shop..........

Matt


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Post subject: Re: Super and Twin in Head Form
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:44 am
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mdortona wrote:
Interesting question Paul. FWIW, I wouldn't spend $13-1400 on a new 65 Twin reissue if it was the last amp in town. I say this because you can easily snag a used 65 Twin reissue or a silverface Twin for between 750-1000 (an even cheaper if you look around). If it's a beat up silverface (and you're talking about putting it in a headshell anyway) then it's a question a few more $100 to get the headshell (http://www.bandmateusa.com make very reasonably price headshells) and some new tubes etc. FWIW, I recently had the chance to snag two 65 Reissues that someone had gutted of their PCBs, re-handwired on to turret boards for $900 and one of them also had a pair of Weber speakers in it too.

Look around carefully. Obviously, getting an old Twin/Dual Showman/Bandmaster etc come with the add investment of getting them up to speed (i.e. tubes, caps/filters etc), but once they are, you're set. FWIW, I think that Fender has in many ways, fallen out of touch with what the more seasoned musicians want/need and what a reasonable selling price is,with the focus being on the younger players and the flavor of the week (i.e. modeling). Just my two cents.

I'm headed out now to go check out a Twin at my local amp guru's shop..........

Matt



Not sure how they're falling out of touch - while they do have a line for younger/beginner players, they also have their Hot Rod line, and a slew of reissues that for the most part people are pretty excited about:
'57 Champ, Deluxe, Twin
'59 Reissue Bassman
'63 Reverb
'65 Princeton, Deluxe, Super and Twin Reverb, Twin Custom 15 Reissues
Custom Vibrolux Reverb
Vibro King

For a company moving forward, that's a pretty good record of re-released product. You can't expect any company to cover all bases for all people, nor should we want them to - then you end up trying to please everyone, which ends up pleasing no one.

Arjay - understand the benefits of the big clean that only a Twin Reverb can provide, but also know that that much power and volume is too often abused by lesser-minded folks in 50-person bars/clubs. Same with 100-watt plexis - they sound great dimed, but only in certain venues...

On getting an older amp and the added investment - it's not that much, and if you want to convert to a head or revitalize an old one, I've found from personal experience it's not much more and can actually be less, plus you get the amp exactly how you want it.

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Post subject: Re: Super and Twin in Head Form
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:26 pm
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I for one would love to see Fender make a 30-45 watt head and cab type amp. I even suggested they make a Fender Pawn Shop Series with Arjay awhile back and use his Princeton Head as a perfect example of one "That Never Was But Should Have Been". An amp along the lines of a Tremolux would be awesome as those are hard to come by.

FWIW

T2

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Post subject: Re: Super and Twin in Head Form
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:06 pm
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Here's a real sweet rig owned and built by a friend in Germany......

Image

Nothing gimmicky -- no fizzy drive channel, no hissy gain stages, no rinky-dink channel switching.

Just pure DRRI tone and reliability, pumped through a small-box Bandmaster style cab stuffed with a pair of 12-inch speakers.

Easily do-able and it represents virtually no R&D costs.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Super and Twin in Head Form
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:49 pm
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+1000 Arjay! Like he said next to no R&D. Hey Fender, you guys taking note of this???? :P

Matt


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Post subject: Re: Super and Twin in Head Form
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:22 pm
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here's one I ran across
Image
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Post subject: Re: Super and Twin in Head Form
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:36 pm
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That's the route I'm thinking about going currently. It definitely would make my back happier!

Matt


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Post subject: Re: Super and Twin in Head Form
Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:46 am
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mdortona wrote:
+1000 Arjay! Like he said next to no R&D. Hey Fender, you guys taking note of this???? :P

Matt


I discussed a number of concepts with Fender's Shane Nichols at the Tempe guitar show in March. Who knows......perhaps some of my rantings may one day translate into some tangible hardware.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Super and Twin in Head Form
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:54 am
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We can only hope and pray........... :wink:

Matt


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