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Post subject: Frontman 212R Mid= Volume?
Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 12:08 am
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Just picked this amp up the other day. Didn't have much time to noodle with it yet. I noticed that on the clean channel, the mid knob actually serves as volume as well? Or is mine screwy somehow? I mean, setting up the gain structure of the amp absolutely invloved both the volume and mid. The volume knob of the clean channel did nothing without the mid cranked up as well. I had the volume up with no sound until I raised the mid. The mid doesn't really serve as an eq contour as much as a partner in volume with the volume knob. Bass/treble work as expected, but the mid threw me. Is this correct? Thanks.

Dan


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Post subject: Re: Frontman 212R Mid= Volume?
Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 6:45 am
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Looking at the schematic, the 212R appears to have the standard tone stack design found on blackface amps. If all 3 tone controls are turned all the way down, there will be little or no output from the amp. Turning just the middle control up and down (with bass and treble set to zero) does indeed look like the operation of a volume control. However, with the volume, bass and treble conrols up and the middle control down, there will still be output from the amp. So yes, to some extent there will be a fair amount of interaction between the tone and volume controls. The drive channel looks a little more complex, but I would bet the tone control operation would be about the same. You can see and experiment with the tone control operation by downloading this:

http://www.duncanamps.com/tsc/index.html

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Post subject: Re: Frontman 212R Mid= Volume?
Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 8:16 am
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+ 1 bluesky636

I modified the HRDlx, HRDvl and BJr to have the tone stack operate the way that you have described, popularly known as the "Twin Tone Stack Mod". This provides much better control of the tone as compared to the modern wiring of the mid pot. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: Frontman 212R Mid= Volume?
Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 9:07 am
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my stage 100 did the same. took some getting used to, but works fine


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Post subject: Re: Frontman 212R Mid= Volume?
Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 10:27 am
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phreddybee wrote:
my stage 100 did the same. took some getting used to, but works fine


Same with my Stage 100 DSP, phreddy.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Frontman 212R Mid= Volume?
Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 11:08 am
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Thanks for the replies. At least I know this is normal. I have the original cybertwin too and I think that amp tweaked the dials to emulate different uniqueness of the amps. I figured this was normal but what threw me was out of the box, all dials were zero'd and when I turned up the volume dial up there was still nothing! I was like great, yet another hosed amp to add to my list! There was just a hint of volume, I mean a hint- so I knew something was there. And then I turned the mid up and the volume came up as well. I think it's fine, although from the quick workout I gave it, the adjustment of mid-eq wasn't part of the function- very little. It's merely gain structure adjustment.

I find it interesting that so many review this amp as seriously loud and touchy with the dials- jumping quickly from softer to instant blasting loud. I don't find this at all, especially with the mid function contributing so much to gain. I found nothing less than 6 for volume and gain will cut it on stage- and I was in input one, not the attenuated input two. Maybe a bedroom practice amp person would find this amp blasting, which it can do, but for stage you'll still have to goose this thing up to at least 6 for realistic use. And that's fine. I've been using 212 100 watts for a long long time and 6-7 is the sweet spot for stage. This is a decent amp from what I can tell at the moment. If it can hold up to gigging, this should be around a long while for me. Although I have not been lucky in amp love through the years. I've been plaqued with amp troubles all the way back to teenage rock bands and to this day, at almost 50, they love me at home, but screw me on stage. We'll see with this one.

Btw- it's likely I'll never use the dirty channel of this amp. I tired it, but that's it. I use a pod X3L and it sounds great in this amp.

Dan


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Post subject: Re: Frontman 212R Mid= Volume?
Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 11:20 am
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shimmilou wrote:
+ 1 bluesky636

I modified the HRDlx, HRDvl and BJr to have the tone stack operate the way that you have described, popularly known as the "Twin Tone Stack Mod". This provides much better control of the tone as compared to the modern wiring of the mid pot. :idea:


I actually prefer the 59 Bassman-type tone stack of my Blues Deluxe Reissue. The neat thing with the link that I posted is that it has both the Fender Blackface tone stack as well as the Marshall/Bassman tone stack. The component values can be changed to match your amp configuration. I use the Marshall/Bassman simulator with the values for my BDRI plugged in to model different tone curves to try out. It gives a really neat picture of what is happening as the knobs are turned. :D

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Post subject: Re: Frontman 212R Mid= Volume?
Posted: Sun May 29, 2011 9:03 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
+ 1 bluesky636

I modified the HRDlx, HRDvl and BJr to have the tone stack operate the way that you have described, popularly known as the "Twin Tone Stack Mod". This provides much better control of the tone as compared to the modern wiring of the mid pot. :idea:

Then let it be known, the Frontman 212r behaves this way as well. I think I'll actually prefer it too, over time.

Dan


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Post subject: Re: Frontman 212R Mid= Volume?
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:34 pm
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+ 1 bluesky636

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