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Post subject: Hot Rod Deluxe vs Hot Rod Deluxe III
Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 4:07 am
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Well, Hello!

I have been looking for a new amp for the past year and I have come to love the Hot Rod Series. The Hot Rod Deluxe seems to fit my needs. I went to Guitar Center trying both the Hot Rod Deluxe and the newer Hot Rod Deluxe III. I'm having a hard time deciding what amp I should go with. I really liked the Original Hot Rod Deluxe but the Hot Rod Deluxe III has more tweaks. Has any other person A/Bed these too very different models?

Thanks, somethingelse11 ;)


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe vs Hot Rod Deluxe III
Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 5:23 am
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As the HRdx is very loud, the volume pot modification on III will help to manage volume instead of battle between 1 and 2 with a feather !

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe vs Hot Rod Deluxe III
Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 7:19 am
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Hi somethingelse11,

If you have the choice, go with the III. I have owned a HRDlx first version for over 13 years and have had the opportunity to check out the III a few times, and the III is very similar in sound to the previous two versions, and the III has improvements such as better/thicker PCBs which can only contribute to better reliability. Both are certainly great sounding amps. :idea:

BTW, the HRDlx III that I used at GC recently, definitely had a jump in volume at 2 on the clean channel, going from zero to loud with no smooth transition in between (not too loud), but mine doesn't do this. I am still not convinced that it was the volume pot that was changed/updated in the new version, as the previous versions were supposed to already have an audio taper pot as mine does, at least according to the schematic (I have verified that mine is an audio taper). :idea:

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe vs Hot Rod Deluxe III
Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 8:44 am
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Well, I just jumped on a mint condition Hot Rod Deluxe. It was on sale for $521.99. I couldn't warrant spending $699.99 on the new one. I liked both so hopefully I made the right decision. What can I say.. I'm short on cash.


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe vs Hot Rod Deluxe III
Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 9:31 am
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Still awesome if truly in mint cond! I would highly recommend checking/setting the bias, as these amps are known to be very cold from the factory, I like mine set for 55% to 60%, the amp isn't really designed to handle the excessive heat of a hot bias.

Congrats on your new acquisition, and maybe you could post your thoughts about it and which tubes that you have installed, your bias setting, and the response of the volume pot and master volume pot, etc. I hope that you enjoy yours as much as I have mine. I have recently been using Chinese preamp tubes and the stock GT output tubes for a very nice drive channel sound, so I am interested to hear about your tubes and sound and performance. :)

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe vs Hot Rod Deluxe III
Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 9:38 am
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I'll let you know about any tube swaps and bias readings. I own a tube bias tester from AMP Head so this will be no problem. I usually like to use JJ tubes, also Eurotubes sells "kits" for these amps which will be where I buy when I re-tube eventually.

Thanks for the help!


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe vs Hot Rod Deluxe III
Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 12:27 pm
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About the pot, this information is just read on forum and not verified. You're right Shimmilou, I didn't check on the schematic.
I know also about a new speaker ...

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe vs Hot Rod Deluxe III
Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 9:14 am
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somethingelse11 wrote:
Well, I just jumped on a mint condition Hot Rod Deluxe. It was on sale for $521.99. I couldn't warrant spending $699.99 on the new one. I liked both so hopefully I made the right decision. What can I say.. I'm short on cash.



You missed out on the improved PCB as well as a few other minor improvements.
The board is a biggie. It just depends on how you use the amp. The original HRDlx PCB has a single layer board. The newer one is supposedly double layer. Egnater as well as other quality oriented amp manufacturers use double sided boards as well as plated through holes. The pedal kit guys BYOC use nothing but thick boards with plated through holes in their kats as well a Tube Depot 5e3 kits. It's just a better board.

My HRDlx was in mint condition when I sold it and I sold it because it was plagued with reliability problems. Yours may be fine. I for one would have spent the extra cash for the improvements. You hear a lot less issues with the III series.

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe vs Hot Rod Deluxe III
Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 10:07 am
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I hear what your saying about reliability on the PCB board. To be fair the HRD III hasn't been out long enough yet for reports on how long they will stay up to par.


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe vs Hot Rod Deluxe III
Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 10:24 am
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Believe me I know. I just think it's a step in the right direction. I'll never own another new Fender designed amp. I've been a Fender fan since 1964 and have owned, rented and borrowed tons of reliable, great sounding Fender amps. I don't like the HRD, VM or SS series amps. I still won't recommend any HRD series amp. I wouldn't care if they came out with a IV, V, or VI series. The reissues are the only current production amps, I'd recommend. I've heard about some III failures, but it seems to be more tube and reverb tank related. The materials and components in the construction alone should have been a warning to me. My Egnater has void free Birch ply cabs. I can't vouch for the void free thing though, but they are birch ply.

Used HRDlx amps sell for $425 all the time in my area. I only got $475 my mint HRDlx. For $600 you can get a clean used DRRI. A way better sounding and better built amp.

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe vs Hot Rod Deluxe III
Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 10:28 am
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HRD aside. what other amps would you suggest that have at least 2 channels in my price range? I own 2 Marshall amps, 1 being an early 70's PTP head. I'm looking for something modern and non reissue.


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe vs Hot Rod Deluxe III
Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 10:46 am
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I don't use two channel amps for distortion. The HRDlx cured me of that. I either use lower wattage amps or pedals. My HRDlx's fizz and more fizz distortion was horrible and it had shared EQ.

I'd go with a used DRRI, use pedals and a switcher like the Tonebone Switchbone to change channels. The DRRI cuts a mix way better than the HRDlx so does my Egnater. Just remember 40 watts is not twice as loud as 20.

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe vs Hot Rod Deluxe III
Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 10:55 am
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63supro wrote:
Just remember 40 watts is not twice as loud as 20.


+1!

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe vs Hot Rod Deluxe III
Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 11:28 am
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63supro wrote:
somethingelse11 wrote:
Well, I just jumped on a mint condition Hot Rod Deluxe. It was on sale for $521.99. I couldn't warrant spending $699.99 on the new one. I liked both so hopefully I made the right decision. What can I say.. I'm short on cash.



You missed out on the improved PCB as well as a few other minor improvements.
The board is a biggie. It just depends on how you use the amp. The original HRDlx PCB has a single layer board. The newer one is supposedly double layer. Egnater as well as other quality oriented amp manufacturers use double sided boards as well as plated through holes. The pedal kit guys BYOC use nothing but thick boards with plated through holes in their kats as well a Tube Depot 5e3 kits. It's just a better board.

My HRDlx was in mint condition when I sold it and I sold it because it was plagued with reliability problems. Yours may be fine. I for one would have spent the extra cash for the improvements. You hear a lot less issues with the III series.

Image

Image


For the record, what you show is not a 2-layer or double layer board. That is simply a single layer board with plated through holes. Yes, that is more durable than one that isn't.

This is a 2-layer board:

http://www.robotroom.com/PCB2.html

Note that there are two different circuits on either side of the board. I am not sure what they are up two now, but when I was involved in PCB design several years ago, they were up to 4 layers I believe. May have been more.

But back to your point. Take a close look at the circuit board in this Hot Rod Deville How-to-bias video. You will note that only a few of the component holes are plated through:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19IUadZJ ... er&list=UL

Compare that now to the photos of a Blues Deluxe Reissue (like I have) in this bias how-to. You will see that all of the component holes are through plated. Clearly Fender was doing this prior to the introduction of the HR Series III amps.

http://www.musicradar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53041

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe vs Hot Rod Deluxe III
Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 11:39 am
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63supro wrote:
Just remember 40 watts is not twice as loud as 20.


Well, lets qualify that statement a little. If the 20 watt amp is using a speaker with a sensitivity of 95 dB SPL @ 1 meter and the 40 watt amp is using a speaker with a sensitivity of 100 dB SPL @ 1 meter, the loudness comparison at full power for each amp would be:

1 watt = 95 dB
2 watts = 98 dB
4 watts = 101 dB
8 watts = 104 dB
16 watts = 107 dB
20 watts = about 108 dB

1 watt = 100 dB
2 watts = 103 dB
4 watts = 107 dB
8 watts = 110 dB
16 watts = 113 dB
32 watts = 116 dB
40 watts = about 117 dB

So there is about a 9 dB difference in the two amps due to the different speaker efficiencies. In this particular case, the 40 watt amp is pretty close to being twice as loud (almost a 10 dB difference) than the 20 watt amp. Swapping speakers between the two will bring them much closer together. I'll let someone else do the math. :D

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